200Tdi Temp sender issues - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old December 22nd, 2011, 01:09 PM
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200Tdi Temp sender issues

OK i have searched the forum and haven't found anyone to have a problem like mine so I thought I would ask.

I had overheating issues on a 200tdi, found a washer fused to the 4th cyl piston, yay, i know lucky me (engine out a few months after it was installed etc).

I decided to change gauge to VDO prior to all this as i had a 2.5TD and was initially worried that the gauge would not be accurate for a 200tdi.

here's the deal: when I turn the key to "acc" position the guage goes up to middle (180-190) but when I turn the engine on it goes back down to the peg.

I have tested the line continuity, perfect, i have run a jump wire from the guage to the sender along with a ground from the gauge to the battery neg terminal, same thing happens. I tried running the engine for awhile to allow it to heat up, IR gun shows 190 at the temp sender housing gauge is on the peg below 100. any ideas? i don't remember the part numbers for the sender but it went in easy enough, i will try looking for the part number when i get home.

so i ask of the rover gurus and immortals here on the site: WTF?

thanks
Chris

(side note: had a 1.4T case installed 1.6 taken out, love it, engine is putting out a lot of black smoke i think it needs a tuning/running rich, shop said it is a big deal involving moving something a few teeth each way, rebuild, drive and see if it's better, try again etc, doesn't sound right to me, sounds like there should just be a fuel adjustment screw or something, any thoughts?)
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  #2  
Old December 22nd, 2011, 01:16 PM
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Sorry to hear about the washer-sure that chewed up the intake valve and seat on the way in. A 1.6 tcase with a tdi engine will rev the engine to the point where it will overheat trying to do highway speeds unless you are running tall tires, the coolant circulates @ such a high speed it doesn't cool much @ the radiator . Glad you upgraded-your truck was a dog with the Td. I saw 100kph on the speedo once on a steep downhill with the pedal on the floor. On the temp gauge you seem to have the wrong impedence sender-its not matched to the gauge. I had a VDO on my 200 and it was spot on. As far as smoke goes-find a different shop. If the engine smokes and has recent injectors a competant shop should be able to tune the Bosch pump to get rid of excessive smoke. I can do it on the side of the road with basic hand tools.
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  #3  
Old December 22nd, 2011, 01:20 PM
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Doug thanks for the super fast reply. ok so which part number for the sender then?

as for the smoke issue would you mind sharing how that is done, i am by no means a mechanic but i'm not afraid to get my hands dirty and every once and awhile i don't even rbeak anything
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  #4  
Old December 22nd, 2011, 01:30 PM
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trying to remember what I sold Dale so long ago. Is yours a defender or disco engine ? Ie turbo above or below the intake manifold ? They use different senders.

Pendy had a great write up on this site about tuning a bosch pump. The procedure and how it works are the same for 2 and 300.
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Old December 22nd, 2011, 01:37 PM
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it is a defender 200, really pleased with the engine and, all just a little nervous now given the overheating issues at first, yes i tried to drive fwy speeds with a 1.6, learned that was bad, fortunately never wrecked the engine. i'll look for the tuning link, thanks
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Old December 22nd, 2011, 01:44 PM
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there are write ups all over the internet including my own site but here's one from 8yrs ago on this site:
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...eferrerid=3511

post 35
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  #7  
Old December 22nd, 2011, 02:32 PM
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What is the coolantpath on a 200tdi defender engine? to the radiator what is the input hose? im assuming it is the top one and the return from the rad is the bottom hose
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Old December 22nd, 2011, 02:49 PM
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For a Defender 200TDI, you want a 5/8"-18 UNF threaded sender. VDO make a few.

http://www.egauges.com/vdo_send.asp?...=250F_120C_VDO
323-026 which includes a second terminal for an idiot light or buzzer,
323-422 without the extra terminal

Make sure your engine grounds are good as the gauges ground through the block. Make sure you do not use sealant on the threads for the same reason.

------ Follow up post added December 22nd, 2011 12:51 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naplm00 View Post
What is the coolantpath on a 200tdi defender engine? to the radiator what is the input hose? im assuming it is the top one and the return from the rad is the bottom hose
Yes.

Also note that the thermostat has a bottom valve that closes and opens flow to the bypass line as well as the main valve to the radiator.
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Old December 22nd, 2011, 05:53 PM
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thanks, I used part 323-422 and I grounded the gauge to the battery with the same results, but i'm not sure about the sender. I think the sender is grounded through the block right? so i will check that tonight. also pretty sure i didn't teflon tape the sender but i forget so i will double check that.

thanks you guys for the help so far, this is the last piece of the puzzle before i can really enjoy this truck, it's been 14 months since purchase and a long road to drivable.
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  #10  
Old December 22nd, 2011, 09:12 PM
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Ok so I yanked my sender surprised to find its 323-817 which is m16 1.5 250 degree but the side shows 6-24V wonder if that's 24 volts? Anyways I'll be order the correct part and see what happens. Found my invoice which clearly shows the part listed as 323-422
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  #11  
Old December 26th, 2011, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 130Tdi View Post
there are write ups all over the internet including my own site but here's one from 8yrs ago on this site:
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...eferrerid=3511

post 35
Here it is again

DISCLAIMER: I DIDN'T MAKE YOU DO ANYTHING TO YOUR ENGINE. YOU MESS WITH THE FUEL INJECTION AT YOUR OWN RISK AND IF THE ENGINE BLOWS UP IT WASN'T ME!
All my tweaking was pretty conservative, you can give every thing more turns, you'll get some more power, make more smoke and the exhaust gas temperature will sky rocket at full power (that's a very bad thing.)
The first thing is remove the top cover and small pipe connected to the top cover by the banjo union.
In the middle of the top cover is a small round metal blanking plug lever it out with a small screw driver. Back off the 13mm lock nut and turn the torx screw (T25 I think) in one turn, retighten the lock not.
See top cover photo
Under the top cover it looks like this (Top cover off pic)
Mark the position of the diaphram scribe a line pointing at one of the screw holes or something and then remove it.(diaphram Pic)
Underneath you'll find the star wheel again mark it's position before you mess with it (Star Wheel Pic)
Rotate the star wheel clockwise I gave it 6 clicks clockwise further will give more power and smoke.
Carefully replace the diaphram but turn it clock wise from it's origional position (you did mark it didn't you and not with something that will rub off).
120 degrees will give the max fuel & power (& smoke), I settled for 45 degrees clockwise turn.
Then there is the max power screw at the back of the pump. the screw is covered with anti tamper devices. It's a real pain to get at. I managed to coax a couple of turns in before the anti tamper stuff prevented it turning any further. If you're dedicated you can grind the anti tamper stuff off with a dremel hobby grinder
( NO A 9" Petrol grinder won't do)
I also tweaked the turbo boost too, by one and a half turns on the adjuster for the turbo waste gate. remove the small clip and loosen the 10mm locknut slide the arm off the pin wind in the rod (the further in the later the waste gate opens and the more boost you get)
200 Tdi's run at 8 -9 lbs boost, 300 Tdi's run at 15 psi boost and it's reckoned not to be a good thing to exceed 15psi on either engine - 300Tdi engine owners needn't mess with the boost.
There was a noticable difference having done this to my engine. I could generally be 1 gear higher in most situations on the road and the low speed torque was better. I've yet to see what's happened to the fuel consumption and I'm wondering if it will pull a 1.22:1 transfer box that i just happen to have in the garage.

It did pull a 1.22:1 transfer box and the fuel consumption was largely unaffected - it got up to speed quickly and then you could lift off to cruise along. Passed the smoke test for the MOT too.
The truck in question is now property of Ed in the USA!
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  #12  
Old December 26th, 2011, 09:25 PM
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Thanks! I took another look and can't seem to find an earth ground lead from the engine to the chassis. The original temp sender stopped working after the engine was put back in so I have a feeling that the ground was not reconnected. I will be calling the shop about this.
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Old January 21st, 2012, 09:54 PM
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bump time

ok so i am still stuck with a wonky temp gauge. new sender and gauge, both correct part number this time. ran a new ground wire for the engine block. same thing happens, turn key to acc position needle gets up to 170-190 depending on how it feels i guess. turn the engine over and needle heads south of 100. remove neg lead to gauge, needle shoots up over 250 (what it is supposed to do with no ground). I have run jumper lines from the sender to the gauge, from the neg terminal of the battery to the gauge, and a positive line from battery to the gauge, same issue. please help!
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  #14  
Old January 22nd, 2012, 09:41 AM
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Battery voltage is OK? Not an alternator problem? Voltage at gauge checked? Gauge is wired correctly?
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Old January 22nd, 2012, 03:16 PM
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battery check 12.65 volts
power wire to gauge check 12.45 volts
gauge wired correctly check

today, again ran power and ground from the battery directly to the gauge, fresh jumper wire from the sender to the gauge, jumper cable (like for jump starting cars) from the neg terminal on the battery to the engine block at a location i know is a good ground ( zero Ohm on multimeter) and something different happened, the gauge did not go to middle (170-190) on turning the key to acc position and it moved up a little from the peg to under 100. i looked at the 2 gauges i have, both read 287.4-22.7 Ohms on them, pretty sure the sender is rated for 10-180 Ohms (thanks egauges for sending me the identical part, twice, both being wrong, there will be a phone call tomorrow).
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Old January 22nd, 2012, 07:23 PM
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I have been told by egauges that temp sensor 323-422 is not available? I did order one two weeks ago and seeing something from them is being delivered wednesday by fed-up hoping its the right one I need.

Not sure if this helps
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Old January 22nd, 2012, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Solis View Post
i looked at the 2 gauges i have, both read 287.4-22.7 Ohms on them, pretty sure the sender is rated for 10-180 Ohms (thanks egauges for sending me the identical part, twice, both being wrong, there will be a phone call tomorrow).
Sorry, the gauge is wrong? Does it not have a part number?

http://www.egauges.com/vdo_mult3.asp...Vision&Units=E
There are only two gauges, 310-104 and 105.
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  #18  
Old January 22nd, 2012, 08:21 PM
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Yup on the box 105 on the part 310 010 006. Then 287.4-22.7 OHM. Since the sender (yes 422 ordered a month back got it 2 weeks ago) is rated 10-180 OHM's the gauge reads low. Sender heats up less resistance needle moves up I think. So given the range that the sender works at the gauge will be off by a lot, ie well under 100 degrees and at operating temp still under the gauge's lower limit of 22.7.
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Old January 22nd, 2012, 10:16 PM
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If it were 287.4-22.7, it would read backwards. High when cold and cold when high. Loose wire would be low and shorted wire would read high.
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Old January 22nd, 2012, 11:24 PM
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It doesn't read hot, only when I take the ground off. Like I said it would get up to the 170-190 mark with the key in the acc or II position. Then when I turn the key to III (engine on) it goes back down under 100 the lowest temp on the gauge. I really don't know what else to do. As I said i ran all fresh wire from the battery to the gauge and from the sender to the gauge and the ground etc same problem. I have checked the continuity of all the wired in the car all are good no issues. Very frustrating.
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