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  #1  
Old February 27th, 2013, 07:59 PM
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200tdi mystery misfire

So I'm finally spending sometime and trying to track down why my truck misses one a cold start until I put a load on it. It will also blow some white smoke (unburnt diesel im assuming) while this misfire is happening. It doesnt Take much to make it go away.. Just a hundred feet or so down the road and the misfire stops and the smoke goes away...but I don't think it should be happening at all. Also idling for a few minutes doesnt do much to make it go away either, it really needs a load in order to stop. I also think the truck is running a bit rich even when at temp.


So my first thought, since it either doesn't happen or is not nearly as prevalent in the warmer months is the glow plugs were bad. Sure enough every single glow plug in my engine was not working....how it started at romp at 4 degrees is beyond me..

Put 4 new OEM glow plugs in...tested them all first, and it starts right up, much faster than before, so I know that's fixed at least

However when I rev it (no load) it still misses and blows some smoke....

Attached are pics of the four glow plugs. 3 look fine but just didn't work. The #1 cylinder had a good deal of carbon on it, the threads were a little boogered, and the hex head was bent a little. Also the inside of the plug actually fell right out of the housing. Any idea if all this is related?

I'm thinking (but can't verify) that its the number 1 cylinder that's missing on me, since it has the most carbon on it. I don't think the bent hex head on the glow plug has any relatively to the issue, most likely just someone put it on too tight and that's probably why the inside got loose and fell out. The new plug went in fine so the threads in the cylinder head were fine (thank god).

I'm thinking the next step is to take out the injectors and have them looked at. I'd rather not spend 1000 replacing those if in fact only one is faulty or they aren't the issue at all.

Anyone know anyone in NJ that can test these injectors?
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  #2  
Old February 27th, 2013, 08:06 PM
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Any good injector shop can clean and test them. You can get replacement tips if needed or the whole injector for that matter. Getting them out some times is a bit problematic and can be a pain in the $$#$@. After you take them out make sure you replace the washer with a new crush washer. These have been hard to source so I would order them so that you have then just in case.
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  #3  
Old February 27th, 2013, 08:26 PM
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Injector nozzles are cheap. Look on eBay. Get Bosch ones. Looks like around $200 for a set. That is all that is needed to fix injectors. If it is not that, you are probably down a bit in compression on the one cylinder.
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Old February 27th, 2013, 08:26 PM
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Thanks. I'll try and find a local diesel shop.... With all the trucks running up and down the turnpike there has to be plenty in the not so distant area


To remove the injector I'm assuming just disconnect the fuel supply line, disconnect the fuel return line, remove the one bolt off to the side , and pull out?


Anything else in the pic I need to remove.


I'll try and source those washers before I take them out..
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Old February 27th, 2013, 08:27 PM
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Have you changed the timing belt recently? Are you entirely sure that your ip timing is correct?
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  #6  
Old February 27th, 2013, 08:32 PM
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Not sure about the timing.... That was another possibility I was considering, but why would it go away once a load is put on it and it warms a bit? I guess a warmer engine cold support a slightly more advance timing than a cold engine...??

So are the nozzles the only thing that needs to be rebuilt on these injectors. Would the spring pressure need to be adjusted? I'm not familiar with rebuilding diesel injectors but I guess I could learn

------ Follow up post added February 27th, 2013 08:34 PM ------

And the timing belt was something I planning once the weather is consistently warmer just so I know it's in good condition
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  #7  
Old February 27th, 2013, 08:47 PM
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Is ERR4621 the right pn for the washers. eBay and google says yes, rovers north and AB says they are for 300tdi only. But don't offer a washer for the 200tdi. Just want to make sure they are the same
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  #8  
Old February 27th, 2013, 09:27 PM
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You can get them pop tested and they can adjust the pressures. Usually they are OK with quality nozzles.

On the timing, just make sure it is OK.
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Old February 27th, 2013, 09:57 PM
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oops wrong vid
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  #10  
Old February 27th, 2013, 10:22 PM
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Pop Test... Self Reliance? Send to Blue Ridge

You can make your own pop tester out of a hydraulic jack and a good quality gauge with some pipe and a feed reservoir.
If you don't feel comfortable, there are a number of places to buy them.
You tube has some good videos on it and you can test each injector yourself if you want to invest the time and trouble.

There are a series of DIY Youtube videos by Mercedessource.
While they pertain to a different marque, the same principals apply.


Some diesel shops want a good chunk of change to check things out and even more to install new nozzles.
There is no diesel magic here, just some time and effort and a little cash for DIY.

My arm chair quarterback guess is that you have an injector that is leaking. At idle the over spill of fuel is noticeable with smoke and rough idle, but under load or with a fully warm engine the extra fuel has less detrimental impact on performance, tickover and thus smoothness. This would account for the carbon... but who really knows until the injectors are tested.

If the injectors are spot on, then get a timing kit that will allow you to pull your pump without tearing the engine apart. A good one will have a round "gear locker" that fits in the engine cover that will hold the pump gear in place while you extract the IP.

This problem does NOT sound like a stretched timing belt, but if you have doubt about yours replace it after you square this problem.

We send our IPs to Blue Ridge Diesel in the Roanoke area of VA.
They are very very good and familiar with the Rover TDI pumps.
You could also send them the injectors if you are not interested in the learning curve with DIY. All 4 will fit in a USPS flat rate box for $5.15 shipping.

Hope these suggestions help.
If I was not so busy would offer to check your injectors myself...
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  #11  
Old February 28th, 2013, 11:42 AM
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I would crack the fuel line one at a time on each injector with the truck running. When you crack one so no fuel is going through injector,( idle will change a bit), and if smoke clears up it tells you that its the potential bad spray pattern or leaky injector that could be the source of the unburnt fuel. I like to wrap a baby diaper around the fuel line before loosening it to absorb the leaked fuel.
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Old February 28th, 2013, 01:21 PM
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X2 on what broadstone said, it will at least help you identify which cylinder is giving you issues. This may seem like a silly question, but have you checked the valve timing? No bent pushrods etc?
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Old March 2nd, 2013, 10:33 AM
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Thanks guys. I will first try cracking an injector one at a time. That's easy enough. I have not yet had a chance to check to valve adjustments. And will do that as well.

Both are easy. Just take some time
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Old March 2nd, 2013, 11:10 AM
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Cracking the line...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bossman429 View Post
Thanks guys. I will first try cracking an injector one at a time. That's easy enough. I have not yet had a chance to check to valve adjustments. And will do that as well. Both are easy. Just take some time
Cracking the injectors will render the cylinder being cracked inoperable, but rarely identifies a leaking injector because the engine is running on 3 cylinders while you're cracking one open and it is hard to distinguish anything when this is happening unless your injector(s) leak so badly that the exhaust color changes drastically.

Let us know if you can determine anything from this process, then it may be time to pull the injectors and have them checked for leaks, accurate pop pressure, and proper spray pattern.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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Old March 2nd, 2013, 12:26 PM
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I found a local Bosch shop that will test them for 18 bucks ECh. For peace of mind I may just have him test them all anyways. Regardless if only one is bad


That being said I think I found the next truck I want. And may be selling this more aggressively.
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Old March 2nd, 2013, 01:36 PM
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Not bad...

That's not a bad price if they know what the spray pattern is suppose to look like and they have the pop specs.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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Old March 13th, 2013, 01:03 PM
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Today I popped the rocker cover off and went through each tappet and adjusted them.

They were a bit loose, but not horribly. All actually pretty much the same amount out. I brought them back down to .008" (using the rule of 9).

Sounds good, but didn't fix the proplem. On to the injectors...
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Old March 13th, 2013, 02:08 PM
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Rocker adjustment ruled out!

Now you can rule that out and move onto the injectors.

I found a set of 200TDI injectors last night that I have never pop-tested.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #19  
Old March 13th, 2013, 02:52 PM
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Yea - I have a very strong feeling its the #1 injector.

I found this thread - http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-...when-cold.html which is the EXACT same issue i have... even down to his #1 glow plug being stuck in tighter than the rest and full of carbon. The last thing he was doing was changign the injectors but then the thread stops... which makes be believe it fixed the issue as most people stop fixing things when the problem goes away lol

RDS had some rebuilts... i got froggy and bought (1) rebuilt injector from him, should be here friday and I will try and pop that into the #1 position and see what happpens. If no good then all of them are going down to the shop to be tested and rebuilt.

I had someone interested in buying the truck and I wanted to sort this out before he came and looked at it, and didn't want to be w/out any injectors and not be able to drive i, so i didn't send any of them out yet.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 03:02 PM
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Good Plan...

That sounds like a good plan and quick too.

BTW: you're really lucky the GP came out of number 1.
Have had them get so stuck that the head has to come off and the machinist has to turn down a special punch to get them out without damaging the head.

Let us know when it's fixed... fingers are crossed.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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