200Tdi Mystery Knock - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old June 16th, 2016, 12:52 PM
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200Tdi Mystery Knock

I was out doing what we all enjoy with our Defenders yesterday, following up old logging roads and bushwhacking along rivers and all that good stuff.
All seemed fine till about ten miles from home, a knock develops and it seems to be in the lower end, it runs rougher too. It idles smoothly though there is a knock that does indeed appear to emanate from the lower end. Compression is all good at 410-420 I'm going to check oil pressure next.

Granted that is a vague description with oodles of possibilities but any ideas?
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  #2  
Old June 16th, 2016, 01:00 PM
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Mine knocked like crazy right before it annilated the big engine bearing on #4.
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Old June 16th, 2016, 01:02 PM
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Yeah, was afraid of something like that. I assume the only way to diagnose is to strip it down?
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  #4  
Old June 16th, 2016, 02:10 PM
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Check the valve lash.
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  #5  
Old June 16th, 2016, 02:18 PM
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Couldn't hurt to check it again but they were adjusted about 3500 miles ago. Seems to be lower end though John.

2nd thought, it was probably less than 2000...
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Old June 16th, 2016, 02:21 PM
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Drain the oil and pass it thru a fine mesh coffee filter. Also see if it is glittery looking.
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  #7  
Old June 16th, 2016, 02:34 PM
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Is the oil light flickering?
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  #8  
Old June 16th, 2016, 02:36 PM
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Doesn't seem like a mystery. Seems like you already know but want it to not be that.
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  #9  
Old June 16th, 2016, 02:41 PM
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If its a Disco 200tdi and the lower bolts were NOT added to the flywheel housing, then you can drop the sump and ladder frame, and replace big ends.


Defender 200tdi require motor and gearbox to be separated to remove "hidden" lower bolts into ladder frame.
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  #10  
Old June 16th, 2016, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedpin View Post
Is the oil light flickering?
You mean you guys have luxuries like oil lights?? Probably have oil pressure gauges hooked up too. I've yet to sort those "minor" details.

Quote:
Originally Posted by javelinadave View Post
Drain the oil and pass it thru a fine mesh coffee filter. Also see if it is glittery looking.
I'll give that a go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
Doesn't seem like a mystery. Seems like you already know but want it to not be that.
I really don't, though I do typically think the worst for some reason. Everything below the head is uncharted territory for me. Barring tell-tale signs in the oil, I guess a strip down is the only way to know, that or keep driving it and see what happens

------ Follow up post added June 16th, 2016 02:51 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedpin View Post
If its a Disco 200tdi and the lower bolts were NOT added to the flywheel housing, then you can drop the sump and ladder frame, and replace big ends.


Defender 200tdi require motor and gearbox to be separated to remove "hidden" lower bolts into ladder frame.
It is a Disco, I did add lower bolts but they are just that, bolts not studs. I assume it's the studs that would be the problem?
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  #11  
Old June 16th, 2016, 07:26 PM
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Changed the oil and strained the old after running a magnet through it, nothing found.
Oh, and I do have an oil light but no, it's never flickered or come on other than momentarily on start up after an oil change. I assume that answers the oil pressure question.

Here is a video for any audio diagnosticians, the second part of the clip, at the end after the rev is most representative of the noise, it's the low thumping undertone. This 2nd audio clip was recorded inside the truck.



Thanks for the input all.
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  #12  
Old June 16th, 2016, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GM13 View Post
Changed the oil and strained the old after running a magnet through it, nothing found.
Oh, and I do have an oil light but no, it's never flickered or come on other than momentarily on start up after an oil change. I assume that answers the oil pressure question.

Here is a video for any audio diagnosticians, the second part of the clip, at the end after the rev is most representative of the noise, it's the low thumping undertone. This 2nd audio clip was recorded inside the truck.



Thanks for the input all.

Honestly can't hear anything negative, maybe others can. Have you tried a stethoscope?
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  #13  
Old June 16th, 2016, 09:24 PM
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This may sound crazy, but could be an injector problem or an air leak at an injector. You may try a diesel purge, and also check for air leaks.
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  #14  
Old June 16th, 2016, 10:11 PM
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Actually...now that I listen more carefully, there is a noticeable knock that does sound like rod knock.

Did you run low on oil or use some kind of ultra low viscosity oil?
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Old June 16th, 2016, 10:13 PM
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injectors
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Present:
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Past:
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  #16  
Old June 16th, 2016, 10:27 PM
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Sounds like injectors.
I know someone who had some high quality reasonaly priced reman 200TDI injectors for sale here...
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  #17  
Old June 16th, 2016, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Sounds like injectors.
I know someone who had some high quality reasonaly priced reman 200TDI injectors for sale here...
Do tell!😜
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  #18  
Old June 16th, 2016, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
Actually...now that I listen more carefully, there is a noticeable knock that does sound like rod knock.

Did you run low on oil or use some kind of ultra low viscosity oil?
Synthetic 5W-40, Rotella T6, and a zddp additive just because.

So the thumping could be from injectors? What's happening?

------ Follow up post added June 16th, 2016 10:59 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Sounds like injectors.
I know someone who had some high quality reasonaly priced reman 200TDI injectors for sale here...
In case they are the culprit, how many do you have? Love the hi output starter by the way...nice, robust starts this past winter

------ Follow up post added June 16th, 2016 11:03 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpond View Post
This may sound crazy, but could be an injector problem or an air leak at an injector. You may try a diesel purge, and also check for air leaks.
Now that you mention air leak, I did notice on 2 occasions I had to re-prime the fuel system after it sat for at least 3 days. I assume that is due to a leak. There is a cobbled fitting on the fuel rail, one port into an injector was snapped when replacing the head.
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  #19  
Old June 16th, 2016, 11:06 PM
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with engine running loosen the fuel injector connector nut to cause a misfire on the suspected cylinder, this cancels a working cylinder thus making it "free wheel" or unload.
then rev the engine to about the rpm range the knock may surface. if indeed a rod knock it should no longer be present, any other machinery knocks such as valve tap can be heard clearly at this time.
old school diag, on gasoline engines you use a test light to ground each cylinder to accomplish this diagnosis.
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  #20  
Old June 16th, 2016, 11:08 PM
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Check the valve lash... You can lose a valve cap for various reasons.

While running, crack loose each injector and see if killing fuel to one cylinder stops the noise. More likely an injection problem than a bottom end one.

If you lose a bearing on one of these, it is over. The pistons almost touch the head when everything is normal. You lose a bearing and the piston will slap into the head and it will be over. Maybe it happens, but I have not heard a bottom end go before.
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