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  #121  
Old January 17th, 2015, 04:31 PM
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"We purchase running vehicles and motors at our location in the UK. All of our motors are 120,000 or less from known vehicles, shops or owners. They are not breaker yard pull outs! On that side we drive (if possible), test run, and pressure test the motors. They are then shipped here via sea freight. Once on this side we really dig into the motors. Each one is fully cleaned and examined. We test run the motor to make sure it is good then we perform a series of tests to ensure the motor is in great shape. We are just now starting to provide video of the motors on line as well" Folk's expectations of this paragraph from Urban's website are all over the place. Just how does "really dig into" and "series of tests" say or imply reconditioned or rebuilt motors or that a new head gasket, timing belt, and tensioner are installed? From that paragraph, it is reasonable to expect a "fully cleaned" and sound running motor that at least passed a "pressure test". The rest of it is hogwash without listing the details of what is "examined" and what additional "tests" are performed. It is apparent Urban via their UK vendor didn't deliver on even the narrowest interpretation. Is it also unfortunate that once the OP opened the crate to see that dirty heap, the alarm bells didn't go off immediately followed by a phone call.
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  #122  
Old January 17th, 2015, 05:25 PM
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I think we are all about to hear more negative things about ULC.
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  #123  
Old January 17th, 2015, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by solarguy View Post
I think we are all about to hear more negative things about ULC.
Go on...


Why does this site constantly allude to stuff but never say stuff outright.
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  #124  
Old January 17th, 2015, 05:37 PM
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Chris Snell is right. Lesson learned, get it fixed correctly by a shop of your choosing and move on.
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  #125  
Old January 17th, 2015, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
Hi Jonesy, a couple of people have messaged me and told me that you are frequently at David's shop and might be able to help. I don't want to put you in a bad spot, but maybe you could help me understand what kind of issues are at play here? If you dont want to get involved, that's ok (none of this directly affects you).
No thanks. Rather not get in the middle of this. I am sure you big boys can figure something out.
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  #126  
Old January 18th, 2015, 03:08 AM
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Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
I want to be clear that it was 5 full days after I initially posted this thread that I revealed that David was being uncooperative. I did post the name of the vendor after a few days but had absolutely no harsh words until it became clear by the end of this week that this situation would not be resolved peacefully. I gave David plenty of time to make the right call.

Also, I will add some additional details from when the purchase was made to curb any speculation.

The engine was purchased in May 2013

At the time I was working in the sales department for a Land Rover dealership and living in an apartment in downtown Boston with street parking. I had an agreement with the management of the dealership to work on my Series project in the shop on nights and Sundays.

I had the engine delivered directly to the dealership. When it arrived, I popped the lid off the crate and looked the engine over, it was a little dirty but looked undamaged. So it was put (in its crate) in the parts warehouse until I was ready to use it.

Because I was squeezing work on the Series in between paying jobs in the dealer shop, I did not have the ability to un crate it and tie up a bay. I had no reason to believe the engine would be suspect - I bought it from a reputable vendor, with a warranty that gave me peace of mind that I had some time to actually get it installed and running.

For those of you who have worked in car sales before, its a grind - 6 or 7 day work weeks, 10 hours a day most of the time. I had much less time to spend working on the Series than I had initially thought. So the project sat with just small progress being made here and there, for about 4 months.

October 2013

At this time, the management of the dealership had some issues with employees taking advantage of their generosity with shop time and everything changed. Anyone who had personal property stored on dealership premises was given 7 days to remove it - no exceptions.

Let me remind you I was living in a city apartment with street parking - this left me with an immediate need to find a home for the Series and 200Tdi. Luckily some friends nearby had some extra space in their warehouse (normally used for storing vehicles in the winter) so I was quickly able to have the truck and the engine moved there.

This was a warehouse it was stored in - not a shop - so there were some challenges to working on the truck and engine. I did make some progress, including getting the engine physically dropped in the chassis, but did not get it anywhere close to running condition. I could also only work on it from September until about Thanksgiving until the warehouse started to fill up with storage cars. The truck and engine sat in the warehouse for about 8 months.

In December 2014, I bought a condo with a 2 car garage out in the suburbs with one of the primary motivators being having a place to get some work done on the Land Rover.

Immediately after buying the condo there were a lot of house projects to do before I could dedicate the resources to setting up the garage and bringing the Land Rover home. I also had to wait until spring, because it was buried in the warehouse with about 100 summer cars that were being stored for the winter.

April 2014

I was able to bring the Land Rover with 200Tdi, home to my condo and dropped it in the garage. It then took a while to get back into the financial position to start getting things done on it again. I only started making real progress on it again in the fall.

That brings us to early January 2015, where I've just about assembled everything to make the engine run and was doing some final checks before hooking up the starter and trying to crank it over. That's when I discovered that it wouldnt turn past TDC and this thread began.

Nothing shady - no unusual reasons why it was started or run for over a year. I think most of you can relate to the above kind of project.



Thanks for the update.


IMO there are indeed unusual reasons for not starting the engine and they are those that you've stated...a hectic work schedule is an unusual reason to blame for things.

If you can find time to eat out,go for a walk or run,read a book or magazine,go to the dentist or gym,visit family..indeed any form of socializing etc you can find 30mins to connect an old battery to see if the engine even turns over.

Working in car sales and at an LR dealer,I find it hard to believe that you couldn't have found time,(between May and October)over any lunchtime,in that period,to connect an old battery,a fuel can and lines to even see if the engine turned over,let alone fired up.

If you picture another scenario and bear with me.....

There's an old P38 4.6 on your sales lot taken as a trade in.

A man sees it on the 'net and buys it for a project vehicle. You obviously think it's running because it's sitting there. He tells you he can't pick it up but if you put it on a trailer and ship it to him he'll cover the cost. You do just that and it's pushed into the garage because by the time it gets there's a flat battery.

1.5 years later the man calls you and tells you he's been in hospital after a long illness,is just out,but when he connected a fresh battery to the P38 to start his project,it wouldn't turn over.

He now wants you to pay to come and pick it up,repair it and ship it back to him again at your cost. Surely you'd think this as somewhat bizarre?


(I know you'd do a PDi etc and make sure it's running etc...but that's not really the issue I'd say from ULC I'm sure?...It just doesn't sound right in their eyes?...someone wants a free engine after blowing theirs up?.....)

With respect I think that the time frame is the real issue and you have to take some blame for not checking the goods you bought soon enough. You certainly had the opportunity to do so,bearing in mind where you worked,and chose not to.

IMO I can assume,working where you work and the relationship between different departments,that you also have access to all manner of discarded packaging no doubt from the workshop side things at the dealer, in the way of pallets etc and I'm sure you have contacts that can give you a great quote on shipping.

You chose not to furnish this information when others were posting about picking up free pallets anywhere,stating that you'd have to take a day off work,go get wood and make a box up which might not be up to standard and drive it to a shipping company etc.

You've no need to take it anywhere...your regular shipping company will call at the dealer and load it up for you and off it would go?

Had you checked the engine,you could've found packaging and shipped it back to ULC thus activating any warranty?

If you want to rebuild the motor now,the likes of Bearmach sell rebuild kits,everything arrives in one box and you could do as much as you can yourself..basic tools and a manual should see you getting the most of it done.

Again,and with respect and to keep it balanced,and also to show what ULC staff that are surely reading this, I think you still need to take a picture of the engine number and show that it is the same as the one on your receipt.

Playing Devils Advocate:How are they(and us)to know the pictures you've taken aren't e.g.from any old engine you found in the LR workshop of the dealer that you work in or on-line?

The first step which I think has been missed in all of this, is not only proving the product you have is defective(as in your images),but it is indeed actually the same product that was sold to you.

If this can not be proven then all that anyone has stated(or slated) and said up until now is defunct.

Can you furnish details of the UK supplier?







.





.
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  #127  
Old January 18th, 2015, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohlins View Post
Thanks for the update. IMO there are indeed unusual reasons for not starting the engine and they are those that you've stated...a hectic work schedule is an unusual reason to blame for things. If you can find time to eat out,go for a walk or run,read a book or magazine,go to the dentist or gym,visit family..indeed any form of socializing etc you can find 30mins to connect an old battery to see if the engine even turns over. Working in car sales and at an LR dealer,I find it hard to believe that you couldn't have found time,(between May and October)over any lunchtime,in that period,to connect an old battery,a fuel can and lines to even see if the engine turned over,let alone fired up. If you picture another scenario and bear with me..... There's an old P38 4.6 on your sales lot taken as a trade in. A man sees it on the 'net and buys it for a project vehicle. You obviously think it's running because it's sitting there. He tells you he can't pick it up but if you put it on a trailer and ship it to him he'll cover the cost. You do just that and it's pushed into the garage because by the time it gets there's a flat battery. 1.5 years later the man calls you and tells you he's been in hospital after a long illness,is just out,but when he connected a fresh battery to the P38 to start his project,it wouldn't turn over. He now wants you to pay to come and pick it up,repair it and ship it back to him again at your cost. Surely you'd think this as somewhat bizarre? (I know you'd do a PDi etc and make sure it's running etc...but that's not really the issue I'd say from ULC I'm sure?...It just doesn't sound right in their eyes?...someone wants a free engine after blowing theirs up?.....) With respect I think that the time frame is the real issue and you have to take some blame for not checking the goods you bought soon enough. You certainly had the opportunity to do so,bearing in mind where you worked,and chose not to. IMO I can assume,working where you work and the relationship between different departments,that you also have access to all manner of discarded packaging no doubt from the workshop side things at the dealer, in the way of pallets etc and I'm sure you have contacts that can give you a great quote on shipping. You chose not to furnish this information when others were posting about picking up free pallets anywhere,stating that you'd have to take a day off work,go get wood and make a box up which might not be up to standard and drive it to a shipping company etc. You've no need to take it anywhere...your regular shipping company will call at the dealer and load it up for you and off it would go? Had you checked the engine,you could've found packaging and shipped it back to ULC thus activating any warranty? If you want to rebuild the motor now,the likes of Bearmach sell rebuild kits,everything arrives in one box and you could do as much as you can yourself..basic tools and a manual should see you getting the most of it done. Again,and with respect and to keep it balanced,and also to show what ULC staff that are surely reading this, I think you still need to take a picture of the engine number and show that it is the same as the one on your receipt. Playing Devils Advocate:How are they(and us)to know the pictures you've taken aren't e.g.from any old engine you found in the LR workshop of the dealer that you work in or on-line? The first step which I think has been missed in all of this, is not only proving the product you have is defective(as in your images),but it is indeed actually the same product that was sold to you. If this can not be proven then all that anyone has stated(or slated) and said up until now is defunct. Can you furnish details of the UK supplier? . .
This, and not because of some perceived allegiance to ULC. It's just business and facts are facts. Appreciate it stated with neutrality. I hope the OP gets this resolved.
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  #128  
Old January 18th, 2015, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by NPT90 View Post
This, and not because of some perceived allegiance to ULC. It's just business and facts are facts. Appreciate it stated with neutrality. I hope the OP gets this resolved.
Facts? What Facts?

The motor was purchased with a warranty that was 90 days from the time that the motor was installed and running.

It does not matter if he was riding a unicycle across north america or just being lazy sitting on the couch scratching his ass. 90 days from being installed and running is 90 days from installed and running.

And when you are building a rover by yourself it can take years just ask me mine has been apart for years. I purchased the motor/ trans last spring and it came with a 90 days from receipt warranty if it is dead I am hosed at this point (my own fault) but there was no way I could hook it up and test it as my 90 was not road worthy and it is a bit complicated to get an LS1 w 6 speed running on the garage floor.

NOW if I had purchased a motor and it was stated 90 days from install / running and it was in the condition of the person in this thread you bet your bippy that I would go back to the vendor and take them up on their warranty after all that would have been part of my purchasing decision and I would have likely paid extra for that comfort knowing how long my build has taken.
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  #129  
Old January 18th, 2015, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by dave_lucas View Post
Facts? What Facts? The motor was purchased with a warranty that was 90 days from the time that the motor was installed and running. It does not matter if he was riding a unicycle across north america or just being lazy sitting on the couch scratching his ass. 90 days from being installed and running is 90 days from installed and running. And when you are building a rover by yourself it can take years just ask me mine has been apart for years. I purchased the motor/ trans last spring and it came with a 90 days from receipt warranty if it is dead I am hosed at this point (my own fault) but there was no way I could hook it up and test it as my 90 was not road worthy and it is a bit complicated to get an LS1 w 6 speed running on the garage floor. NOW if I had purchased a motor and it was stated 90 days from install / running and it was in the condition of the person in this thread you bet your bippy that I would go back to the vendor and take them up on their warranty after all that would have been part of my purchasing decision and I would have likely paid extra for that comfort knowing how long my build has taken.
Sigh; misconstrued I'm in full agreement that the warranty should be honored. I'm just of the opinion that if I wanted a replacement I would absorb some cost to return the goods.

Personally I'd return it but I appreciate the difficulties and frustration by the OP at the avenues and means to secure another engine.
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  #130  
Old January 18th, 2015, 09:11 AM
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Just curious: What is an acceptable amount of time for a motor to sit around before you install and fire it up?

Full disclosure-I bought a motor from ULC in Jan '14 but did not start it until it was installed in the vehicle Aug '14.
(it drips oil , by the way)

So, how long is too long?


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  #131  
Old January 18th, 2015, 09:16 AM
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I'd like to bring this to a close by saying that I am cutting my losses with the situation and going to move on repairing it myself.

It's not worth the hassle and cost to go through the process of shipping it back to ULC for an unknown resolution in the end. I've made this decision based on my own experience with David Dearborn and also on the advice of others who have been in strikingly similar situations with him.

Thank you for the support, I will start a new thread detailing the inspection and repair process.
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  #132  
Old January 18th, 2015, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
I'd like to bring this to a close by saying that I am cutting my losses with the situation and going to move on repairing it myself.

It's not worth the hassle and cost to go through the process of shipping it back to ULC for an unknown resolution in the end. I've made this decision based on my own experience with David Dearborn and also on the advice of others who have been in strikingly similar situations with him.

Thank you for the support, I will start a new thread detailing the inspection and repair process.

Just finished reading this. That sucks. I think you moving on is the only way you will get even close to a satisfying resolution. Good luck and I hope when it is done it runs like a bat out of hell.
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  #133  
Old January 18th, 2015, 10:47 AM
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Maybe you feel you've done us all a service by warning us about ULC, but you've also succeeded in making everyone extremely cautious of dealing with you too.
Just sayin.
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  #134  
Old January 18th, 2015, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
I'd like to bring this to a close by saying that I am cutting my losses with the situation and going to move on repairing it myself.

It's not worth the hassle and cost to go through the process of shipping it back to ULC for an unknown resolution in the end. I've made this decision based on my own experience with David Dearborn and also on the advice of others who have been in strikingly similar situations with him.

Thank you for the support, I will start a new thread detailing the inspection and repair process.
Best route to take.
Time to let go and fix your engine
Check out post 15 when you get started.
We are here to help if needed.
Good Luck!
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  #135  
Old January 18th, 2015, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
Maybe you feel you've done us all a service by warning us about ULC, but you've also succeeded in making everyone extremely cautious of dealing with you too.
Just sayin.
To the OP....With respect.....I must stress the same point for the third time....if you'd be kind enough to prove the engine is the one they shipped by virtue of tallying the engine number on your receipt with a picture of the engine number on the engine,then we'll all know the whole anecdote is either true or untrue from the beginning.

Again,also who the UK supplier was?...Most second hand running UK 200tdi's sell these days for in and around $5-600...add shipping and $1000 odd of parts and you have a rough guide price?

I'm sorry to say that if these pics are is lacking then I can only assume the whole thread has been a slight on your behalf towards ULC for some other reason?

Also if you could post up a copy of the warranty conditions then we would know what the terms and conditions were..a scanned copy would suffice.

When the proof arrives then we can at least know what's what in respect of ULC?

I'm surprised at the amount of people on here who didn't ask for the same proof before proffering opinions based solely on your side of the story.


You had also mentioned that you'd received PM's from other members lambasting ULC ,by virtue of their unfortunate experience with ULC.

This is anecdotal and thus irrelevant as these are unable to be quoted and prove nothing.

If these people had something to say relative to ULC,then they could've used your thread as a medium to show others what their experience was. If it was true and bad enough they surely wouldn't be shy in indicating a warning to others concerning ULC?


All of this can of course be damaging to a car trade business,as is the business you're in,and the livelihood of those who work in same,hence the respectively unbiased questions.

As you work in the car trade business also,you'll know deep in your heart of hearts what is acceptable and what is not,all relative to your own case.

IMO you've already been conservative with the truth relative to shipping and crating the engine and highlighting anecdotal evidence such as others sending you PM's. You have also not quoted any of ULC emails to prove they said,what you said they said. If these were quoted,when you mentioned them at the start of the thread,then others could've chimed in with a more balanced view and offer up other advice.

Logically speaking and IMO you've realized that the engine supplied (if the pictures actually are of that same engine)was a non runner too late.....contacted the supplier on the off chance of getting another engine..when you were told that that was impossible you've come onto the forum to vent and see if this might cause leverage for ULC to change their mind?...This has been unsuccessful to date.
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  #136  
Old January 18th, 2015, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by dave_lucas View Post
Facts? What Facts?

The motor was purchased with a warranty that was 90 days from the time that the motor was installed and running.

It does not matter if he was riding a unicycle across north america or just being lazy sitting on the couch scratching his ass. 90 days from being installed and running is 90 days from installed and running.

And when you are building a rover by yourself it can take years just ask me mine has been apart for years. I purchased the motor/ trans last spring and it came with a 90 days from receipt warranty if it is dead I am hosed at this point (my own fault) but there was no way I could hook it up and test it as my 90 was not road worthy and it is a bit complicated to get an LS1 w 6 speed running on the garage floor.

NOW if I had purchased a motor and it was stated 90 days from install / running and it was in the condition of the person in this thread you bet your bippy that I would go back to the vendor and take them up on their warranty after all that would have been part of my purchasing decision and I would have likely paid extra for that comfort knowing how long my build has taken.
Agreed also...but in this instance the OP hasn't/didn't :

1.Post up a copy of said warranty and

2.Proven the engine he's taken pictures of is the actual engine that was supplied to him by ULC (by virtue of receipt serial numbers,tallying with images of physical serial numbers on said engine)


Without these key elements,draw what conclusions you will.




.
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  #137  
Old January 18th, 2015, 12:54 PM
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The vendor sold something that is clearly not as advertised. This is not an error. They did not magically make a mistake. Based on that, the vendor cannot be trusted. Returning the engine to them would be much too risky. If they defrauded you in the first place, the chance of being defrauded a second time are high. The buyer would then be out all of their money and property and with the only recourse being expensive civil action.
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  #138  
Old January 18th, 2015, 12:55 PM
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ULC was the engine supplier in the UK, why is that so hard to understand? 200tdi's do not grow on tree's in the US, so questioning whether its the engine that he was shipped is bullshit. It's not like you can go down to the local junkyard and find one. Your playing devil's advocate which is fine, but your knowledge base is off.

It sucks that this had to come to down to exposing the issue on a forum, you would think that ULC would stand behind their products. Reality is your buying a engine that is at least 20 years old, most likely older than that, so what do you really expect the engines condition to be?

Good luck with the rebuild and please post up any questions on the rebuild
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  #139  
Old January 18th, 2015, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
The vendor sold something that is clearly not as advertised. This is not an error. They did not magically make a mistake. Based on that, the vendor cannot be trusted. Returning the engine to them would be much too risky. If they defrauded you in the first place, the chance of being defrauded a second time are high. The buyer would then be out all of their money and property and with the only recourse being expensive civil action.
Precisely.....and categorically correct .....but only if the pictures of the engine posted are indeed that of the same engine that was supplied.





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200tdi Ex British Army 110 Hardtop 139142kms
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3.2DiD Pajero 266,000kms
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  #140  
Old January 18th, 2015, 12:57 PM
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Red90
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John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post
Reality is your buying a engine that is at least 20 years old, most likely older than that, so what do you really expect the engines condition to be?

Good luck with the rebuild and please post up any questions on the rebuild
Adam expected it to be in tested and running condition since that is what he agreed to pay for. If it used some oil or popped a head gasket 1000 miles later that is another thing.

The engine, as received, was not functional.
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