200Tdi issues - opinions needed - Page 6 - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #101  
Old January 16th, 2015, 11:08 PM
transientmechanic's Avatar
transientmechanic
Status: Offline
Adam
1972 SIII
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 786
He said he will not put his business "financially at risk". He also accused me of being "afraid" of shipping it back to him. And said that him even offering to look at it was a "big step".

I dont use the quotes to be derogatory, these are direct excerpts from our email exchange.

Basically he said that if there was something that wrong with engine, that I would have no problem paying to ship it back to him. Otherwise, it shows guilt on my part because I'm hesitant to send it to him. It's a joke - why should I have to pay to fix his mistake? He will not accept responsibility.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #102  
Old January 16th, 2015, 11:18 PM
mgreenspan's Avatar
mgreenspan
Status: Offline
Matthew Greenspan
Land Rovers
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Nevada City
Posts: 1,719
Registry
I don't know what to say about that. ULC did good work on my truck but I took it there in person and picked it up in person. I don't like distance deals.
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old January 16th, 2015, 11:51 PM
Jonesy's Avatar
Jonesy
Status: Online
Craig
87 D110 (Ruby)
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 4,447
Registry
I will only say that in my dealings with Dave & ULC he/they have only been upstanding, honest and great to deal with.

Sorry this seems to be going south for all concerned.
__________________
"The difference between stupidity and genius, is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #104  
Old January 17th, 2015, 12:04 AM
transientmechanic's Avatar
transientmechanic
Status: Offline
Adam
1972 SIII
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 786
Hi Jonesy, a couple of people have messaged me and told me that you are frequently at David's shop and might be able to help. I don't want to put you in a bad spot, but maybe you could help me understand what kind of issues are at play here? If you dont want to get involved, that's ok (none of this directly affects you).
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old January 17th, 2015, 02:22 AM
broadstone's Avatar
broadstone
Status: Offline
Chris
'84 CSW 90 '74 NADA III '97 CSW 110
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Dorset UK / CT USA
Posts: 662
Registry
Is it possible to find out through correspondence or shipping details who in the UK supplied the engine you received. I am sure everyone would agree the finger should be pointed at them. There seems to be no doubt they are the root of the issue.
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old January 17th, 2015, 09:03 AM
Kelbo's Avatar
Kelbo
Status: Offline
Kelly
'86 110
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: In a River
Posts: 346
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post
"We purchase running vehicles and motors at our location in the UK. All of our motors are 120,000 or less from known vehicles, shops or owners. They are not breaker yard pull outs! On that side we drive (if possible), test run, and pressure test the motors. They are then shipped here via sea freight. Once on this side we really dig into the motors. Each one is fully cleaned and examined. We test run the motor to make sure it is good then we perform a series of tests to ensure the motor is in great shape. We are just now starting to provide video of the motors on line as well"

Seriously…what a crock of shit
Very questionable, indeed. Sorry to hear about this.
__________________
Kelbo

'86 110

Former Rigs:
'94 D 90 ST
'84 D 130 Hi-Cap
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old January 17th, 2015, 09:04 AM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Offline
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,544
Registry
This is how I would approach the situation:

1. Get in writing that shipping back the engine on my dime would result in exchange for a replacement engine - no questions asked. Get it in writing that you are given the right to perform a full strip-down inspection of the engine to ascertain its condition and you will bolt it back together for shipping if the engine is otherwise worn beyond rebuilding. Basically, come to an agreement with the seller that the engine, if returned to the shop, is basically a rebuild core and you will be guaranteed a replacement "working engine" upon receipt.
2. Get a shipping quote for the engine - all costs included - uhaul rental, crating/palletting, etc.
3. Check block flatness to make sure within tolerance
4. Check head flatness to make sure within tolerance
5. Remove engine from truck, oil pan, and measure crank runout on cylinders 1 and 4 to make sure within tolerance.
6. Remove crankshaft and camshaft - make sure no scoring or other damage on the journals.
7. Examine old bearings for wear.
8. If any of steps 3-7 are fails, then I am guaranteed that any rebuild effort will cost significantly more than the cost of shipping back the engine and shipping a replacement engine. This is where I crate everything up and send it back to Urban for the agreed upon, guaranteed replacement engine.
9. If all of steps 3-7 are passes, then, IMHO, I would be better served doing a full rebuild, including new bearings, pistons, and seals, head cleaning/etc rather than spending the cost on shipping. The upside of this is that, done correctly, I end up with an engine that will last me 200k and I know for a fact the engine is solid.
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old January 17th, 2015, 09:31 AM
1of40's Avatar
1of40
Status: Offline
1of40
NAS 97SW & 83 One Ten Tdi
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Potomac Falls & Wintergreen, Virginia
Posts: 6,085
Registry
IMO it is unfortunate that the shop name and owners name had to be revealed before a final decision was reached between the two parties. I think this at a minimum is a good example of how fast things can go downhill and how slippery the slope can get for everyone. As a result this post has done some serious reputation damage. As a business owner it is a shame David has let it get to this point and I feel, given he has much more at stake, he is implicitly held to a hire standard than a everyday consumer.

For the record I bought and engine kit from him a two summers ago. The kit turned out to be as described and to my knowledge still performing as expected.

We all know running a business is not easy. I can only imagine what the pressure must be when your critics are warriors that rarely push away from their keyboards, let alone take the level of risk it requires to scratch the surface of operating one.

Clay
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old January 17th, 2015, 11:55 AM
Ohlins's Avatar
Ohlins
Status: Offline
Retired Weirdo
1986 Army 110
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: French Pyrénées
Posts: 115
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadstone View Post
Is it possible to find out through correspondence or shipping details who in the UK supplied the engine you received. I am sure everyone would agree the finger should be pointed at them. There seems to be no doubt they are the root of the issue.
That would be interesting to know....








.
__________________
200tdi Ex British Army 110 Hardtop 139142kms
2.286 Petrol Series 3 Lightweight 75,043kms
3.2DiD Pajero 266,000kms
Yamaha XTZ660Z Ténéré 58112kms
Gas Gas 300EC Ohlins Enduro Moto.
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old January 17th, 2015, 12:04 PM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,249
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1of40 View Post
We all know running a business is not easy. I can only imagine what the pressure must be when your critics are warriors that rarely push away from their keyboards, let alone take the level of risk it requires to scratch the surface of operating one.

Clay
If you want to get in a business of selling used engines and you want it to be a long term business, you would be insane not to have compression, leak down and running tests performed either by yourself or someone that you trust. Copies of these tests with photos should accompany each engine.

Selling untested randomly pulled engines out of the UK is guaranteed bankruptcy. If ULC is not willing to stand up and take full responsibility for this, then that is where they are heading. The engine as posted in this thread had clearly zero tests done on it and ULC only needs to look at the photos to know this.
__________________
Pissing people off on the "net" since 1983.

Land Rover. Turning owners into mechanics since 1948.
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old January 17th, 2015, 12:08 PM
Ohlins's Avatar
Ohlins
Status: Offline
Retired Weirdo
1986 Army 110
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: French Pyrénées
Posts: 115
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Britpart only supplies Dayco branded timing belts.

Just as a slight bend in the direction before coming back to an even keel....the BP kits will indeed have a Dayco belt,but you'll probably find,as I have done in the past when kits was sent out in error from Paddocks,that there was play in the tensioner wheels. I returned same at their cost and ordered a different kit,which of course came with no play in the tensioner...

Bearmach kits are my weapon of choice for timing kits with original seals.(Corteco to save buying the same thing in a Land Rover box)...the only BP stuff I'll buy is selective hard stuff like hinges/discs and starter motors along with the odd indicator/wash wipe stalks.


Just say'in....






.
__________________
200tdi Ex British Army 110 Hardtop 139142kms
2.286 Petrol Series 3 Lightweight 75,043kms
3.2DiD Pajero 266,000kms
Yamaha XTZ660Z Ténéré 58112kms
Gas Gas 300EC Ohlins Enduro Moto.
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old January 17th, 2015, 12:43 PM
mongosd2's Avatar
mongosd2
Status: Offline
Frank Rafka
01 D2 96 D1 83 110
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tucson
Posts: 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
If you want to get in a business of selling used engines and you want it to be a long term business, you would be insane not to have compression, leak down and running tests performed either by yourself or someone that you trust. Copies of these tests with photos should accompany each engine.

Selling untested randomly pulled engines out of the UK is guaranteed bankruptcy. If ULC is not willing to stand up and take full responsibility for this, then that is where they are heading. The engine as posted in this thread had clearly zero tests done on it and ULC only needs to look at the photos to know this.
Gotta agree with you 100% on this…
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old January 17th, 2015, 12:48 PM
Ohlins's Avatar
Ohlins
Status: Offline
Retired Weirdo
1986 Army 110
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: French Pyrénées
Posts: 115
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
If you want to get in a business of selling used engines and you want it to be a long term business, you would be insane not to have compression, leak down and running tests performed either by yourself or someone that you trust. Copies of these tests with photos should accompany each engine.

Selling untested randomly pulled engines out of the UK is guaranteed bankruptcy. If ULC is not willing to stand up and take full responsibility for this, then that is where they are heading. The engine as posted in this thread had clearly zero tests done on it and ULC only needs to look at the photos to know this.

Correct...to all of the above....is it that hard to organize these tests/pics/video when you have a partnership going??

You'll take a risk as a direct customer with the UK supplier...but as a business that's where it will be different.

In the instance of buying direct,any of the UK forums these days can give advice if any know of the supplier?

One could use Google Earth/Street Map and this will let you know if it's a workshop in an industrial unit or a scrap yard?

Playing devils advocate....

Imagine the same circumstances but with e.g. a used motorcycle. Who would let it lie for a year and a half in a garage with out starting it as opposed to when it first arrived? Just to even hear it ?

To activate a warranty so long after after never being checked....no doubt the business owner see's this as weird? I know I would. I sold a motocycle a year and a half ago and the man contacts me to tell me it's not working after he never even started it?

The idea also of giving a warranty once an engine was installed as opposed from date of purchase sounds goofy...after all I could drive a motor for a year and a half,when it blew I could say I only installed it yesterday and to cover it.

With the greatest of delicate respect,has the OP copies of the original receipt showing the engine number and a current picture to prove to the forum that the pictures he has taken are indeed of the engine that was supplied?

This will confirm it is the same engine we're all talking about,that there are no ulterior motives at play and everyone hasn't went off half cocked.

The business owner needs this proof too.

This hasn't been mentioned before...just what the OP has written.

Unique set of circumstances for sure...one can see both angles.....the CC secure solution is about the best compromise that I can see so far,given the long time frame but there's a reluctance for either to kick the ball first.

All the best




.
__________________
200tdi Ex British Army 110 Hardtop 139142kms
2.286 Petrol Series 3 Lightweight 75,043kms
3.2DiD Pajero 266,000kms
Yamaha XTZ660Z Ténéré 58112kms
Gas Gas 300EC Ohlins Enduro Moto.
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old January 17th, 2015, 01:02 PM
Nomar's Avatar
Nomar
Status: Offline
Jeff B
RR HNTR,RR LWB Tdi
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Central,Virginia
Posts: 4,291
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
If you want to get in a business of selling used engines and you want it to be a long term business, you would be insane not to have compression, leak down and running tests performed either by yourself or someone that you trust. Copies of these tests with photos should accompany each engine.

Selling untested randomly pulled engines out of the UK is guaranteed bankruptcy. If ULC is not willing to stand up and take full responsibility for this, then that is where they are heading. The engine as posted in this thread had clearly zero tests done on it and ULC only needs to look at the photos to know this.
Agree with this.

If Will Tillery,Joel Mercer, or Randy Williams had sold a motor that looked like this, I've no doubt they would eat it and refund the customer.


.
__________________


Real Rovers have round headlights!
Rent my
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
!
Just a few miles from 4x4 access!
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old January 17th, 2015, 01:55 PM
transientmechanic's Avatar
transientmechanic
Status: Offline
Adam
1972 SIII
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 786
I want to be clear that it was 5 full days after I initially posted this thread that I revealed that David was being uncooperative. I did post the name of the vendor after a few days but had absolutely no harsh words until it became clear by the end of this week that this situation would not be resolved peacefully. I gave David plenty of time to make the right call.

Also, I will add some additional details from when the purchase was made to curb any speculation.

The engine was purchased in May 2013

At the time I was working in the sales department for a Land Rover dealership and living in an apartment in downtown Boston with street parking. I had an agreement with the management of the dealership to work on my Series project in the shop on nights and Sundays.

I had the engine delivered directly to the dealership. When it arrived, I popped the lid off the crate and looked the engine over, it was a little dirty but looked undamaged. So it was put (in its crate) in the parts warehouse until I was ready to use it.

Because I was squeezing work on the Series in between paying jobs in the dealer shop, I did not have the ability to un crate it and tie up a bay. I had no reason to believe the engine would be suspect - I bought it from a reputable vendor, with a warranty that gave me peace of mind that I had some time to actually get it installed and running.

For those of you who have worked in car sales before, its a grind - 6 or 7 day work weeks, 10 hours a day most of the time. I had much less time to spend working on the Series than I had initially thought. So the project sat with just small progress being made here and there, for about 4 months.

October 2013

At this time, the management of the dealership had some issues with employees taking advantage of their generosity with shop time and everything changed. Anyone who had personal property stored on dealership premises was given 7 days to remove it - no exceptions.

Let me remind you I was living in a city apartment with street parking - this left me with an immediate need to find a home for the Series and 200Tdi. Luckily some friends nearby had some extra space in their warehouse (normally used for storing vehicles in the winter) so I was quickly able to have the truck and the engine moved there.

This was a warehouse it was stored in - not a shop - so there were some challenges to working on the truck and engine. I did make some progress, including getting the engine physically dropped in the chassis, but did not get it anywhere close to running condition. I could also only work on it from September until about Thanksgiving until the warehouse started to fill up with storage cars. The truck and engine sat in the warehouse for about 8 months.

In December 2014, I bought a condo with a 2 car garage out in the suburbs with one of the primary motivators being having a place to get some work done on the Land Rover.

Immediately after buying the condo there were a lot of house projects to do before I could dedicate the resources to setting up the garage and bringing the Land Rover home. I also had to wait until spring, because it was buried in the warehouse with about 100 summer cars that were being stored for the winter.

April 2014

I was able to bring the Land Rover with 200Tdi, home to my condo and dropped it in the garage. It then took a while to get back into the financial position to start getting things done on it again. I only started making real progress on it again in the fall.

That brings us to early January 2015, where I've just about assembled everything to make the engine run and was doing some final checks before hooking up the starter and trying to crank it over. That's when I discovered that it wouldnt turn past TDC and this thread began.

Nothing shady - no unusual reasons why it was started or run for over a year. I think most of you can relate to the above kind of project.
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old January 17th, 2015, 02:40 PM
dave_lucas's Avatar
dave_lucas
Status: Offline
Dave Lucas
None
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: CO USA
Posts: 3,126
I can understand the lack of trust when considering it was supposed to be tested / partially refurbished but was basically just an old used lump.

FWIW when you buy from a reputable company states side that offers a warranty you pay much more for the motor and with that added markup you do not take as much risk as buying directly from a breaker in the UK for half the price (or less). The buyer in this situation could have purchased a used lump from the UK for half as much if he would have know the company was going to provide a untested used motor.

It does sound like urban is willing to honor the warranty but the situation just sucks and I know i wouldn't trust them if I were the buyer in this situation.

FWIW I have purchased New items from urban and they were fine as expected so no axe to grind on my behalf
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old January 17th, 2015, 03:30 PM
chris snell's Avatar
chris snell
Status: Offline
Chris Snell
87 Ex-MOD 110
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,439
Adam,

I've had my own issues with David and Urban Land Cruisers: misleading advertising, poor product, and poor customer service. My issue was ultimately resolved satisfactorily: he refunded me and paid to ship the product back. It was a huge pain in the ass, though and I learned my lesson.

I've read this thread (and the one on DiscoWeb) several times now and I've come to this conclusion: I think you're wasting your time trying to get ULC to pay for this problem. I think that your sitting on the motor for over a year (no matter how well-kept) has to count for something and I think a fair price to pay for that is for you to pay for the crating and shipping back to ULC.

That said, I would not trust this vendor to repair this motor properly. I would take my motor to the local machinist and have my heads done right by someone who I trust and where I can inspect the workmanship. I would do the same for the block--do my own work where I could and pay the machine shop to do what I can't. I would do all of this on my own dime. and chalk it up to lessons learned. I think you're wasting your energy trying to get them to pay for all of this and frankly, I think you're in denial that sitting on the motor for 1+ years places a little of the blame back on you.

I feel bad for you. I know you're a good guy and you're an honest businessman. You did a great job helping me find my LR4. I want to see you get your sweet two hundy in your truck at long last. I feel like ULC should help you out but I just don't think they're going to and maybe you're just asking too much of them. I would let it rest, give them the Internet middle finger, and go get my motor fixed and move on.
__________________
1987 Ex-MOD 110 Tithonus LHD
2013 LR4


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old January 17th, 2015, 03:36 PM
Jymmiejamz's Avatar
Jymmiejamz
Status: Offline
Jimmy
1995 D90 SW #365
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 3,468
Registry
Maybe this sounds crazy, but I would just ask if Dave could supply a rebuild kit, and you just cover the cost of the machine work and rebuild it yourself.
__________________
Car Camping Collective founding member and Treasurer
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old January 17th, 2015, 03:50 PM
1of40's Avatar
1of40
Status: Offline
1of40
NAS 97SW & 83 One Ten Tdi
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Potomac Falls & Wintergreen, Virginia
Posts: 6,085
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post
Gotta agree with you 100% on this…
X2. The whole situation is messed up.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old January 17th, 2015, 04:29 PM
lordhelemt's Avatar
lordhelemt
Status: Offline
Paul
1995 D90 #2620 & NAS 110
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 1,113
This seems painful...

I would NOT return this motor and wait and see what happens. If repairing or replacing this motor puts really puts his business at financial risk there are deeper problems and I wouldn't want to be the extending credit when the music stops.

Cheaper isn't always cheaper and unfortunately you'll need to chalk this up as a learning experience. Good luck!
__________________
RIP 1994 D90 #999 (engine fire 2002). We'll miss you.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Tags
200tdi, tdi

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Opinions Needed - Checking this truck out tomorrow Suppatime Defender Technical Discussions 15 January 19th, 2012 03:53 PM
Lashcap issues/valve cap issues trybul Defender Technical Discussions 6 January 9th, 2012 12:46 PM
Opinions Needed: Arles Blue ST - Automatic rijosho Misc. Chit-Chat 22 October 9th, 2011 12:54 AM
Title opinions needed mightymg Defender Technical Discussions 7 July 30th, 2009 10:14 AM
opinions needed and a pic? januconn92 Defender Technical Discussions 3 November 27th, 2003 01:01 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:05 PM.


Copyright