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  #41  
Old January 12th, 2015, 04:53 PM
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Thanks Robert, that is exactly the resolution that I proposed to David. I think it would be a pretty seamless solution and I hope it works out.
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  #42  
Old January 12th, 2015, 05:00 PM
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Newman is starting a RURR from VA to FL in a day or 2 and may be able to help you out.
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  #43  
Old January 12th, 2015, 05:24 PM
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Abraham Bell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
It's a difficult situation for sure. I guess the real question is whether or not they actually have an "advertised warranty that stated the 90 day warranty period starts when you get it installed and running. Not from date of purchase."

That seems unbelievable to me that they would make that kind of claim. However, if they actually have that kind of warranty, they should honor it (in my opinion.)
I have read that same warranty from a vendor here in the US.
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  #44  
Old January 16th, 2015, 10:21 AM
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Update: David Dearborn is being difficult to work with in resolving this situation.

He is insisting that I pay to crate and ship the engine back to him for inspection and possible repair. My shipping costs would not be reimbursed.

I do not feel it's right to incur additional costs (hundred of dollars to crate and ship) up front to resolve this problem.

I've proposed two alternative solutions, neither of which David is willing to accept.

1) Send me a replacement engine, and upon receipt I will return the failed engine in the same crate. I even offered to pay return shipping.

2) Pay to have the cylinder head inspected and machined at a machine shop local to me, to avoid shipping costs. This was quoted at $400.

I have reminded David that at the time the engine was purchased, his warranty stated that the 90-day warranty period on the engine started when it was installed and running. There was no time limit given. Given the nature of this project (a fairly intensive rebuild/modification of a Series III, which David was aware of at purchase), I do not feel that 16 months is an unreasonable time from engine purchase to install/running. David is refusing to honor his own warranty.

At this point I can not recommend that anyone do business with David Dearborn, Urban Land Rovers, Urban Land Cruisers, atlcruiser, or any other alias by which he is known. I will be filing a complaint with the BBB in Atlanta so they are aware of the issue. Notably, this will not be the first complaint of this type lodged against this business.
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  #45  
Old January 16th, 2015, 11:23 AM
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Adam, how's your foot?
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  #46  
Old January 16th, 2015, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
David is refusing to honor his own warranty.

Sounds like he hasn't refused to fix it, but that instead you don't want to pay to ship it back to him (which is understandable). Did the warranty include free shipping?


I would have gone with your suggested resolution #1 if I were him even if I didn't believe I was legally obligated to do so.
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  #47  
Old January 16th, 2015, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
Update: David Dearborn is being difficult to work with in resolving this situation.

He is insisting that I pay to crate and ship the engine back to him for inspection and possible repair. My shipping costs would not be reimbursed.

I do not feel it's right to incur additional costs (hundred of dollars to crate and ship) up front to resolve this problem.

I've proposed two alternative solutions, neither of which David is willing to accept.

1) Send me a replacement engine, and upon receipt I will return the failed engine in the same crate. I even offered to pay return shipping.

2) Pay to have the cylinder head inspected and machined at a machine shop local to me, to avoid shipping costs. This was quoted at $400.
Understand you are frustrated but I think this is a bit of a special case (given the timeline) and I am not sure anyone can expect a refund without returning the merchandise for inspection/repair to the vendor. Just because David didn't specify an end date for a warranty on a used engine that is almost a decade old doesn't mean logic doesn't apply; a year and a half is a long time to have anything sit, especially since the initial condition will never be known.

Not sure what your original shipping arrangement was with David but if he drop shipped it to you it means he didn't have the opportunity to inspect it himself. If he is offering to inspect the motor and repair at his facility it might still be the most advantageous option to you and him. Just because he won't flip the bill for another shop to do the repairs (2) or send you a replacement before you send him his merchandise back (1) (have you ever had a business do that, with anything?) doesn't mean he isn't holding up the original agreement; it just means you aren't keen on the terms
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  #48  
Old January 16th, 2015, 11:56 AM
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After the process that I have been through so far, I am not going to incur costs to put myself in the position where David has my money, and my engine, and has no motivation to get either one back to me.

The real cost of crating and shipping this engine back to him is close to $1000 - maybe $300 to ship, plus $50+ in lumber to build a crate, plus losing a day at work, renting a uhaul trailer, driving at least 30 minutes to a freight terminal, and then shipping it at my own risk.

What if something happens to the engine in transit and it arrives further damaged? Then it's on me. No thanks, not going to take that risk - especially since I am not a professional engine shipping crate builder.

In David's own words, he will not put his business financially at risk to resolve this issue. However, he expects me to put myself financially at risk.

I have had many vendors step up in the past and send me replacement parts pro bono when theirs have failed. It's a great way to take care of your customers while creating minimal inconvenience to them and standing behind your company.
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  #49  
Old January 16th, 2015, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NPT90 View Post
(2) or send you a replacement before you send him his merchandise back (1) (have you ever had a business do that, with anything?) doesn't mean he isn't holding up the original agreement; it just means you aren't keen on the terms
You're right, typically if a merchant wants something back, you ship it back to them and only then do they ship the replacement.

So under your proposed solution #1, you would end up paying return shipping of the engine. If you shipped the engine at your own expense to David, and he either fixed it or replaced it and then shipped it back to you at his expense, that would be fair also and is pretty much the same thing except for the order in which things occur.

The entire situation sucks for both of you. I've sold a couple of used 200tdis nearly 4 years ago now and to my knowledge both of them are still sitting around waiting for installation.
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  #50  
Old January 16th, 2015, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meatblanket View Post
You're right, typically if a merchant wants something back, you ship it back to them and only then do they ship the replacement.
This is the opposite of my experience - where typically a vendor will ship a replacement, with a return shipping label enclosed, and then the bad product goes back in the box witht he new label and right back to the vendor.

In any case, I do not understand how a business could flat out refuse to take any financial risk in resolving a major problem for a customer, and instead expect their customer to take 100% of the risk and burden. It's insulting.
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  #51  
Old January 16th, 2015, 12:10 PM
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So, you're willing to pay for shipping the bad one back. Why then are you slamming David? Is it because he won't ship another one first? That doesn't make any sense. It cannot be that you're in any kind of hurry.
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  #52  
Old January 16th, 2015, 12:14 PM
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Try proposing a core charge that you pay for, but are reimbursed for when the vendor receives the bad motor. This is standard practice for most all rebuilt engines and transmissions.
Didn't your receipt state the warranty terms? Sounds like you are going off his website.
Good luck. I hope it works out for all (except for whoever shipped it over from the UK).
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  #53  
Old January 16th, 2015, 12:25 PM
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For the hassle of building a crate, shipping it back, waiting an unknown amount of time for it to be checked out and repaired/replaced... I would be better off just having it repaired locally. I just don't think that's right... In my opinion David is intentionally structuring this to force me to just do nothing. I'll have it repaired locally, eat the cost (which would be less than crating and shipping) , and he gets to just move on to the next unsuspecting buyer.

If this were an isolated incident I may give him the benefit of the doubt, but from the 10 or so warnings I have received via PM it may be better to just cut ties with this vendor and take the hit.

Their reputation is fading fast... the last thing I need is to send him my motor and it gets tied up there for 3 months while he goes out of business and then I never get my engine or my money back.
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  #54  
Old January 16th, 2015, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
This is the opposite of my experience - where typically a vendor will ship a replacement, with a return shipping label enclosed, and then the bad product goes back in the box witht he new label and right back to the vendor.

In any case, I do not understand how a business could flat out refuse to take any financial risk in resolving a major problem for a customer, and instead expect their customer to take 100% of the risk and burden. It's insulting.

I may have done it both ways, it's been a while since this issue has come up for me. I do recall shipping a Banks header back to them for warranty before they would send a replacement. But the order in which it occurs doesn't matter unless there are trust issues. Certainly there are trust issues here.
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  #55  
Old January 16th, 2015, 12:34 PM
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A little off topic, but it has always amazed me the way used LR engines are sold. If I were to buy a used engine from Japan, it would come with documented compression and leak down tests. This should be standard practice as a minimum.

Earlier on you stated it was supposed to come with video evidence of it running and that this has not been provided. Tell David to provide it now and the video should clearly show the engine serial number.
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  #56  
Old January 16th, 2015, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
For the hassle of building a crate, shipping it back, waiting an unknown amount of time for it to be checked out and repaired/replaced... I would be better off just having it repaired locally
Winner Winner! If you are not willing to ship the unit back to Atlanta and you are not willing to crate it and ship a used engine back to the source for exchange/repair you're just shit out of luck.

I drove TO ATLANTA to pick up my engine from David, and I think it cost me less than the absurd $ amount you are quoting to crate and ship it...
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  #57  
Old January 16th, 2015, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
A little off topic, but it has always amazed me the way used LR engines are sold. If I were to buy a used engine from Japan, it would come with documented compression and leak down tests. This should be standard practice as a minimum.

Earlier on you stated it was supposed to come with video evidence of it running and that this has not been provided. Tell David to provide it now and the video should clearly show the engine serial number.
All good points…

If he cared, which it's obvious he doesn't, he'd at least agree to ship a replacement (#1), but would you really want to take the risk of getting another engine that could be in worse condition than what you have now?

What's funny is members of this forum have gotten out the pitch forks and torches and slammed others for buying shit in the UK, flipping it and shipping it site unseen to someone in the US, but in this case its ok? And please don't insult your own intelligence by saying that the engine was inspected and tested, if it was, it would have been blowing white smoke at startup and should have never left the place until it was made ready for use.
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  #58  
Old January 16th, 2015, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post
please don't insult your own intelligence by saying that the engine was inspected and tested, if it was, it would have been blowing white smoke at startup and should have never left the place until it was made ready for use.
I agree 100% with this, these engines are lucky if they get bench run but even if its the guarantee of the supplier (and ergo the supplier's supplier) you are still dealing with a used engine that most likely was thrown on a pallet and shipped without inspection. That is just the nature of salvaged auto parts
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  #59  
Old January 16th, 2015, 01:26 PM
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Sorry about the bad news. That's terrible

On the other hand, this may be a good opportunity to sink some money into a proper rebuild.

I'm personally not so bothered by the rust in the cylinder. The head still looks decent. How does the crankshaft and camshaft look? Those are the big dollar items.

Cylinder rings are cheap, so is a new set of pistons. How about the rods and gudgeon pins?
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  #60  
Old January 16th, 2015, 01:36 PM
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If they'll ship it back after inspection/possible repair then why not pay the shipping?
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