200tdi disco motor high egt with new full width intercooler - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old May 29th, 2016, 12:01 AM
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Anthony Werre
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200tdi disco motor high egt with new full width intercooler

After last year running slow and having high EGTs, I broke down and purchased a full width Intercooler and new radiator. Had the injection pump bench tested and the injectors rebuilt. New timing belt.

So was all excited to see the reduction in EFTs. Nope. My disco200tdi still runs high EGTs. A lot higher compared to Roving Ryan's 200tdi. I am at a loss. I am down on power compared to Ryan's. 14lbs boost. Played with the injection pump settings. Main fuel, smoke and fuel pin adjustment. Still high. A little more power.

So...what does the pool of knowledgable people here advise?

Thank you

Anthony
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  #2  
Old May 29th, 2016, 12:12 AM
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Valves adjusted?
Pump timing?
I don't have proof but somebody told me Roving Ryan adds Gypsy tears to his fuel.
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  #3  
Old May 29th, 2016, 12:27 AM
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Anthony Werre
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Originally Posted by javelinadave View Post
Valves adjusted? Pump timing? I don't have proof but somebody told me Roving Ryan adds Gypsy tears to his fuel.
Valves were adjusted recently, and we advanced pump timing a hair.

I drove Roving Ryan's. It must have something injected other than diesel.
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  #4  
Old May 29th, 2016, 01:32 AM
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So to clarify further here are the details on mine
Defender 200tdi
Newish turbo with boost turned up to 14lbs
Injectors rebuilt about 15k ago
Lots o pump tweaking
Stock Intercooler
Stock exhaust

My gypsy tears tank sprung a leak so only running on b20.

Both rigs are similar set up weight wise and both with rtt.
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  #5  
Old May 29th, 2016, 10:19 AM
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Is Compression good? What condition is the turbo in? Sounds like you've addressed the fuel and air side of the equation.
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Old May 29th, 2016, 10:23 AM
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Same transfer case ratios?
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  #7  
Old May 29th, 2016, 10:25 AM
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Both 1.4 ratio.

Not known on compression and assume turbo is original, was tested at shop to be at 14lbs boost.
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  #8  
Old May 29th, 2016, 10:33 AM
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What exactly are the EGTs at sustained full throttle and how do they change with engine speed?

What is top speed? What is 0-60?
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Old May 29th, 2016, 10:36 AM
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I recommend taking as much out of the equation as possible.

drop boost pressure to 10 or 11psi as per factory stock first. get the turbo back into its efficient region.
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  #10  
Old May 29th, 2016, 10:43 AM
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Lowering boost will increase EGTs.
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Old May 29th, 2016, 11:28 AM
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Both at sustained full throttle with get to 1250 on egts. (and beyond but that is where i back off) Anthony much faster then I and at a lower speed. On flat ground with no head wind holding 60ish i am typically around 750-850 on the egts. Anthony was higher at 950-1050. On Anthony's we started at a stock tuned pump with the new allisport full width intercooler. All tweaking was done to further improve power. We do need to get a boost gauge mounted in his permanently and that is the next step.
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  #12  
Old May 29th, 2016, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RovingRyan View Post
Both at sustained full throttle with get to 1250 on egts. (and beyond but that is where i back off) Anthony much faster then I and at a lower speed. On flat ground with no head wind holding 60ish i am typically around 750-850 on the egts. Anthony was higher at 950-1050. On Anthony's we started at a stock tuned pump with the new allisport full width intercooler. All tweaking was done to further improve power. We do need to get a boost gauge mounted in his permanently and that is the next step.
Any chance the gauge is borked?
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Old May 29th, 2016, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Lowering boost will increase EGTs.
Shouldn't the FIP reduce fueling appropriately with boost? If it doesn't, doesn't that signify a problem?
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Old May 29th, 2016, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
Shouldn't the FIP reduce fueling appropriately with boost? If it doesn't, doesn't that signify a problem?
The boost diaphragm maxes out around the stock boost level.
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Old May 29th, 2016, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
The boost diaphragm maxes out around the stock boost level.
Right, but isn't the OP's baseline FIP tuned rich to begin with? Therefore, the "maxed out" boost diaphragm is dumping fuel. My point is to return to stock tune and therefore lean out the engine.

The OP stated that his FIP has "Lots o pump tweaking", which to me means that he is dumping fuel. Not sure why he's mystified about his EGTs running hot...
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Old May 29th, 2016, 07:16 PM
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All that matters is the max EGT at sustained full throttle. They will also change with engine speed. On mine, peak temps are around 3000 rpm. Find a long steep hill that takes a long time to accelerate and plant it at 1800 rpm in 5th and let it slowly rev up and note the max numbers. 1330 is the max for continuous use. It will be fine for short periods a bit higher. You probably just have too much fueling.

Part throttle temps mean nothing.

What does smoke look like?

Like I asked earlier, what is top speed and what is 0-60 mph time? Knowing those, we can have an idea of power levels.

Where is the EGT probe located?
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Old May 29th, 2016, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
Right, but isn't the OP's baseline FIP tuned rich to begin with? Therefore, the "maxed out" boost diaphragm is dumping fuel. My point is to return to stock tune and therefore lean out the engine.

The OP stated that his FIP has "Lots o pump tweaking", which to me means that he is dumping fuel. Not sure why he's mystified about his EGTs running hot...
He wants more power, not less. More boost will allow more fuel with the same EGTs and more power. The 200TDI turbo won't do more than 18 psi, regardless of what you do and as long as you head gasket is fresh, you will never hurt anything. Keeping the EGTs from getting too high is the important bit, IMO, to a long life for the engine.
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Old May 29th, 2016, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
He wants more power, not less.
I'm confused now. The OP stated, specifically, "My disco200tdi still runs high EGTs. A lot higher compared to Roving Ryan's 200tdi. I am at a loss."

When did he say he wants more power? Power is only weakly correlated with EGT, correct? The OP has a problem he has to solve: Unusually high EGTs. I gather that he attempted to fix the high EGTs by installing a larger intercooler, but that seems like a disjoint solution.
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Old May 29th, 2016, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
I'm confused now. The OP stated, specifically, "My disco200tdi still runs high EGTs. A lot higher compared to Roving Ryan's 200tdi. I am at a loss." When did he say he wants more power? Power is only weakly correlated with EGT, correct? The OP has a problem he has to solve: Unusually high EGTs. I gather that he attempted to fix the high EGTs by installing a larger intercooler, but that seems like a disjoint solution.
OK here is where we feel there is a problem. Just as a reminder mine is the one of lots of pump tuning and tweaking. I have always had more power and lower egts in the same road conditions similar weights. (Mind you mine is a stock defender setup with nothing more then pump tuning and a few fresh components) Werraa in an attempt to figure out why and solve what ever problem there may be had the pump calibrated back to stock settings, injectors rebuilt and installed the new allisport radiator (full width) and intercooler (full width). So in theory he should be better off then me except in the power part of the equation and that is still not the case. His egts are higher then mine. Something is off with it but we are not sure what yet. We also did some pump tuning to increase power after the recalibrate (to match allisports recommendation with the new intercooler) The point here is how can I with stock parts out perform (both power and egt) then he can. That is the question I think he is trying to ask. So to further complicate this I have compared my egts to several different 300tdi 110's and the egts are about 200 degrees lower then mine (and they can pull away from me on the hills) however I attribute some of that to my tuning and am working to further improve mine.
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  #20  
Old May 29th, 2016, 09:07 PM
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A larger intercooler will not get you any more power at these boost levels. The stock intercoolers do everything needed at 15 psi.
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