200 vs. 300TDI - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old July 9th, 2011, 08:53 AM
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Daniel Smith
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200 vs. 300TDI

I am sure this has been asked before, but I cannot find any thread about it. I am going to put a diesel in my Defender, the only question is which one. I have read that the 200 will give better milage, and that it will bolt straight up to my LT77, but that parts are getting harder to find, and that heads are NLA. Do these things go through heads?

The 300 will be a little more modern, more money since I will have to change out the tranny and transfer case. But really is there any real reason I should go and use the 300 over the 200?

Thanks in advance.

BTW, the rover arrived in Edison NJ yesterday so I will be picking it up this week.
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  #2  
Old July 9th, 2011, 11:20 AM
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Scott Preston
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Nothing wrong with a 200 tdi. Great motor, simple to work. MPG between the 200 and 300 are the same. 300 is much more refined and more quiet. Having said this they are both tractor motors. As you mentioned, you will have a long term parts issue.

Personally I prefer the 300tdi. I have two and love them both. They are worth every penny you will spend to convert. Really not that expensive. About $6500 will get you a complete 300tdi drivetrain out of a defender to your door. About $1500 - $2000. worth of new parts and you are ready to go. They are really straight forward to install. I don't do any of this wok but can recommend where to get the drivetrain and who to install it if you like. email me off list if you have any questions.

All the best with the truck

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  #3  
Old July 9th, 2011, 11:24 AM
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Tony Sims
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It's true that 200TDi engines and parts are getting harder to find in good used condition. Personally I think that's where the "parts are getting hard to find" story arises.

I don't see any indication that new or refurbished parts are scarce; a quick scan of the larger UK aftermarket sellers shows all the major parts (cylinder heads, cams, cranks, blocks) available, though some sellers are out of stock on some items. Same exact story for the 300TDi.

I've not seen evidence that the 200TDi is more prone to cylinder head problems that other engines. Most "head problems" are due to poor maintenance of cooling systems or improper assembly during rebuilding. My daily transportation since the late 80's has been cars that have "head problems" -- Alfas, BMW big 6's, LR V8's. I've never had a head or head gasket fail. I've also never had a coolant hose fail, or a fan belt fail, or an oil cooler line fail, or a radiator fail... I've replaced or repaired a lot of parts before they failed, though. I'd rather do maintenance in the garage than repairs on the road side.
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  #4  
Old July 9th, 2011, 01:49 PM
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David Short
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Kind of related to this thread.... I have always wondered what the differences between the 200 and the 300 Tdi actually are. I think the short block assemblies are the same. I mean, could I take a 200 Tdi, strip it down and replace the heads and fuel/turbo assembly from a 300 Tdi and effectively have a 300 Tdi.

Surely the alternators and water pumps and oil pans and so forth are the same? Right?

Or.... am I smoking crack?
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  #5  
Old July 9th, 2011, 05:42 PM
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There's not a whole load of (Seat of pants) difference between the 200 and the 300.

Personally i prefer the 300, only because it's newer.... 200 is getting on for 20 years old now.

300's have a serpentine belt, and are /slightly/ quieter.... but it's like saying a truck is quieter than a tank....

the 300 can be bolted to an LT77 gearbox... just remove the old 2.5/200Tdi rear flywheel housing and bolt it to the 300.
200's will mount up (more or less) to the old 2.5/2.25 chassis mounts... 300 need new ones welding in.
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Old July 9th, 2011, 06:27 PM
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I'm not so sure about the alternator(s) being compatible. As stated above, the 300 has a serpentine belt, while the 200 has a conventional V-belt. Thus, the 300 alternator is (without going outside and looking ;^} ) more or less firmly attached to the engine, and the tensioning is accomplished by the belt tensioner.
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  #7  
Old July 9th, 2011, 07:55 PM
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I was under the impression that the 300Tdi has more horsepower- no?
D
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  #8  
Old July 9th, 2011, 08:04 PM
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Right now I am converting my Defender with a 200Tdi from a Discovery. I choosed for this because I thought it was easier then a 300Tdi . I choosed for a Discovery 200tdi's because these are much cheaper and easier to then the Defender 200Tdi's. I paid in Europe about 1000 dollar for the engine.

Before starting this conversion I should have done some research....

I learned for a LHD car it is a P.I.T.A. job. When putting this engine to the LT77 gearbox (straigh fix) you run into al kind problems with the steering column, the exhaust and the frame. They all want to be in the same position.

So I decided to take the engine out again and put in a discovery gearbox with a longer bellhousing . This moves the engine forward but you have to weld new engine stands to the frame. This is what I did today and everything seems to fit (although not running yet).

Becuase of the welding and changing the gearbox as well it would have been the same amount of work to put in a 300Tdi. This also requires new engine supports.

So my conclusions in this whole project sofar:
- if you take an engine with gearbox both, the 200 and 300tdi are the same amount of work
- Discovery 2ooTdi's are easy to get, and about 750 euro (appr 1000 dollar)
- For a LHD, move the engine forward with the longer bellhousing from a Discovery !!!
- The story changes if you take a Defender 200Tdi, which has the turbo at a higher position.

I have been driving 200Tdi, 300Tdi and 2.8TGV engines for the last 20 years and never had any serious problems. 200tdi, for sure, makes more noice, feul consumption is the same as 300Tdi.
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  #9  
Old July 9th, 2011, 08:50 PM
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So a 200 out of a Defender will bolt right up to my LT77 and I can use the 2.5 gas engine mounts?
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  #10  
Old July 9th, 2011, 09:10 PM
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It worked on both mine, 90 was a 2.5 petrol, 110 was a 2.5TD. Now both 200tdi's.
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  #11  
Old July 9th, 2011, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red64chevelle View Post
So a 200 out of a Defender will bolt right up to my LT77 and I can use the 2.5 gas engine mounts?

yup. How did you end up shipping the truck ? Did our uncle handle it ?

300's are quieter IF you get all the sound deadening the factory put in those later trucks. If not you won't notice much of a difference.
Have had both. There are about 5hp difference between the defender 200 and the 300 engines. I think its a 2hp difference between the disco 200 and the 300 engine. The disco engine won't work in a lhd truck as Johan found out the hard way. Switch out the 200 disco manifold and turbo for the 300 manifold and turbo and bobs your uncle.
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  #12  
Old July 9th, 2011, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 130Tdi View Post
yup. How did you end up shipping the truck ? Did our uncle handle it ?
Yep, it arrived in Edison NJ on Friday. The VPC is not open over the weekend, so I am going to try to swing by on Wednesday to pick it up. I got the DOE paperwork and everything. The only issue I might have is that some paperwork says it is a 85, other stuff says 86. I have the letter from Land Rover that has it's birthday in 1985.
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  #13  
Old July 10th, 2011, 08:23 AM
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I have completely rebuilt both a 200tdi and a 300tdi. (Bare block to complete engine) The 300tdi is easier and cheaper. And there was a thread on this a while back
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Old July 10th, 2011, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diesel_jim View Post
the 300 can be bolted to an LT77 gearbox... just remove the old 2.5/200Tdi rear flywheel housing and bolt it to the 300.
200's will mount up (more or less) to the old 2.5/2.25 chassis mounts... 300 need new ones welding in.
Not really as easy on a left hand drive though.........as everything runs into the steering.
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Old July 10th, 2011, 08:30 PM
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On the 200tdi the timing belt cover is a bit#h. If you want drop to the oil pan to examine the crankshaft, forget it, there is a special stiffening section in the way - engine has to come out of the vehicle. The injectors are twice as expensive as the 300tdi. And despite earlier claims, there were no 200tdi heads anywhere in the world when I was looking for one. All that coupled with the issues with the turbocharger and LHD. It's cool to say you've got a 200tdi, but I'm glad I only have one - got three 300tdi's and they are easier to live with.
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  #16  
Old July 11th, 2011, 05:11 AM
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you can put the 300 head on a 200.....
I deal with quite a few 200's and they are a challenge and more expensive to keep. Shame really as they are a great motor. I've yet to notice the improved economy that is claimed, but I also have yet to see the economy that is claimed by pretty much most diesel owners.
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Old July 11th, 2011, 06:18 AM
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I think putting a 300tdi head on a 200tdi is an urban myth. I talked to Turner or one of the companies in UK and they were very adamant about not doing it. And if you think about it, if you could do that then you could use a 300tdi exhaust manifold and turbo and solve the LHD problem. Wish I had sat down and compared the two when I had my 200tdi apart.
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  #18  
Old July 11th, 2011, 06:37 AM
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You can use the 300 manifold and turbo to solve the LHD problem w/o needing the 300 head. It will bolt onto the 200 head.
No urban myths involved.
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new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

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Old July 11th, 2011, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
And if you think about it, if you could do that then you could use a 300tdi exhaust manifold and turbo and solve the LHD problem. Wish I had sat down and compared the two when I had my 200tdi apart.
We have about 25k on the one we did an year and a half ago. no myth. use the 300 manifolds and the slightly longer 300 manifold bolts No mythical beast-Cabell's daily driver in a truck converted to lhd.
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Old July 11th, 2011, 08:31 AM
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Fun eh. I keep junk motors in the shop like surgeons dummies with all the organs that you can pull out and play with. It's surprising which bits you can substitute from generation to generation especially with the 2.5 diesel variants.
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