200 TDI Spill Rail Banjo Bolt Washer Size - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old July 6th, 2016, 11:25 AM
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200 TDI Spill Rail Banjo Bolt Washer Size

I have a leaking banjo bolt and need to replace the copper crush washers on either side of the bolt where it connects to the injector.


Stupidly I left them at home, but would like to go and look during lunch today locally to see if I can find some.


Can someone tell me what size they are?


ERR1304


I was going to order some from RN and have them by the end of the week, but they don't have them in stock and won't for over a week. I am dead in the water without it as I can't keep compression.


TIA


Will
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  #2  
Old July 6th, 2016, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
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I am dead in the water without it as I can't keep compression.
?? What does a spill rail leak have to do with compression?

It is basically no pressure on the spill rail. You can pull the bolt and add a bit of non hardening gasket sealer and put back together. Should last forever.
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Old July 6th, 2016, 11:33 AM
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Well it won't run worth a shit without it.......it's dumping fuel out onto the motor.....perhaps compression is the wrong word.
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Old July 6th, 2016, 11:39 AM
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It should have no affect on the engine operation, so there is something else wrong. It is just a system to send unused fuel back to the tank.

What exactly is causing the leak? It a washer missing? I'm asking because there are a lot of other reasons for a leak beyond a washer and if that is the case, a washer won't fix the problem.
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Old July 6th, 2016, 11:43 AM
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Yea its just not gonna seal. I replaced mine with some random copper washers from a Harbor freight copper washer kit about 4 years ago. No issues.

They definitely are larger outside diameter than the originals but work. I was in the same situation as you, but mine ran fine.. Just was spraying fuel everywhere

80 Piece Copper Washer Assortment
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Old July 6th, 2016, 11:49 AM
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Huh, interesting coincidence perhaps?


I had/have a leaking injector. I replaced the copper washer for the injector this weekend and I must of not noticed and dropped (i.e. fell off) the washer on the banjo bolt while putting it back together.


Last night on the way home from work the truck dropped RPM's and started running rough....really rough. If I dumped the accelerator the motor would ramp up and run like it should, but as soon as I take my foot off the pedal the RPM's drop and eventually the motor will stall.


The truck has run great with absolutely no issue until I pulled that injector. I opened the hood and can see fuel bubbling out of the banjo bolt and assumed that was my issue.


I should preface this by saying I have been a 200TDI owner for about 3 weeks.
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Old July 6th, 2016, 11:57 AM
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I'd say replace the washer and then crack the high pressure inlet fitting at the top of the injector with the engine running to bleed out any air that may have made it into the system. Then retitghten and kill the engine. Then restart and check for leaks after drying everything out.

If it runs better, you are done! If not.... Welcome to rovers

Now would be a good time to install a real fuel filter too
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  #8  
Old July 6th, 2016, 12:23 PM
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Just get a gas touch and get the washers cherry red, some gas ranges will get hot enought. There's no need for new if there is no damage to the faces.Re-annealing.
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Old July 6th, 2016, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by roverman2010 View Post
Just get a gas touch and get the washers cherry red, some gas ranges will get hot enought. There's no need for new if there is no damage to the faces.Re-annealing.
Yea he lost one I think
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Old July 6th, 2016, 12:43 PM
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Silly boy, just go to napa, autozone or what have you pick up a sort pack, easy pesy.
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  #11  
Old July 6th, 2016, 01:06 PM
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Yes, I lost one.




My local parts stores are not great. Napa does not have any and neither does OReilly's.


I should be able to get one from Summit, I can have their stuff next day.
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Old July 6th, 2016, 01:57 PM
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You can get away with even using a plastic washer, hell even a fibre washer i.e cardboard for temp. There is no pressure in the spill from the injectors USLESS you have a blockage, kinked pipe somewhere.

Even wrap some teflon tape around the bolt for a day or two.
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  #13  
Old July 6th, 2016, 02:52 PM
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OK what you mean by a crush washer is the fact that the copper slightly compresses (crushes) when the banjo is tightened.

It is common practice that knuckleheads will put a wrench right on top of the spill over hole and twist a wrench, pliers, vice grip or whatever to remove an injector.

Then when the injector in reinstalled there are gouges around the hole that act as a channel to disperse leaking fuel.

When you remove the spill over line be sure and examine the area where the "crush washer" seats onto the face of the injector around the banjo bolt spill over line hole.

If it is gouged then you'll need to replace the injector.
I can have the injector machined for between $50 and &75, but the injector will have to be rebuilt with a new nozzle because debris from the machining will enter the injector and clog the nozzle.

As for size, it is most likely a 6 mm od, but could be 1/4".
It will be easy enough to check once a banjo bolt is removed.
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Old July 6th, 2016, 03:09 PM
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Thanks everyone, I ordered an assorted kit from Summit so surely they will have something in there that will work.




Robert, I had read an old post from you about the same issue before I pulled the injector this weekend. It was not leaking before and I was very careful not to use a wrench to wiggle the injector when I took it out. It actually just pulled right out with my fingers without much persuasion.


I will make sure to check it again though to make sure it's not gouged in any way.




Hopefully once I get it all back together and bleed the high pressure line as suggested earlier my running issue will go away. Air in the fuel line seems to make sense as I could almost describe it as running out of fuel (actually, this was the first thing I thought of when it happened and I quickly looked at the fuel gauge because it's not working quite right either).
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Old July 6th, 2016, 04:21 PM
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You could have a non-dripping fuel line leak on the suction side that draws in air and fuel starves the engine.
You'll need a 12V pump close to the tank to expose that sort of leak.
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Old July 7th, 2016, 07:58 PM
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I really need to morph this into another thread, but since I started here I'll keep posting here.

I replaced the washers tonight without issue and bled the injectors (supply line)………all was well.

There are some weird things going on so I will try and post all the facts as I have no idea if they are somehow related but can't believe they are not. I needed a new master cylinder and installed that this weekend. The servo I had seemed to have a very small vacuum leak so I ordered a new one as well. I replaced those tonight and started the truck, it took a few more seconds to start than usual, but once running ran just fine. I got down the driveway and noticed the brake pedal was not returning. Brake lights on with my foot off the pedal and it would not return to it's normal position. The entire thing just felt really, really strange.

I get 3/4 of the way down the block and the truck starts shaking like crazy and stalls. I can start it back up, but as soon as I give it some pedal it runs like crap again and bucks like a wild horse……it will either eventually stall or if I baby the throttle and pump the shit out of it will take back off. The brake pedal seems to have an effect on how it idles and generally runs when I apply it.

So, I can start the truck and get it to idle….sometime it is really low and might jump up to normal RPM's and sometimes it will not. The vacuum at my servo is at 30 in/hg which is pretty much pegged and seems high although I don't know. If I give it any fuel it will ramp up and then buck like a bull when I release the throttle and eventually shut off unless I feather the accelerator and it will eventually spool up again.

I am uploading a couple of videos and will post them in a little while, but would love some suggestions as to what I might look for.



ETA:

This is a Discovery 200TDI installed into a 1969 Series IIA.
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  #17  
Old July 7th, 2016, 08:29 PM
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Besides all the running issues, the booster/master not working is probably due to freeplay adjustment on the rod or lack of bench bleeding the master.

Running issues sounds like you have other unrelated problems...timing/fueling/engine breathing?
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  #18  
Old July 7th, 2016, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naplm00 View Post
Besides all the running issues, the booster/master not working is probably due to freeplay adjustment on the rod or lack of bench bleeding the master.

Running issues sounds like you have other unrelated problems...timing/fueling/engine breathing?
Master was bench bled and the system was pressure bled……..I am 100% positive it's right. The brakes worked fantastic until I encountered this other issue; I just heard a very small vacuum leak in the diaphram and I don't think it was enough to have any effect of the system as it could keep up, but I wanted to replace it to make it 100% right.


Video here if it works ( I have a better one I am uploading now)

https://youtu.be/zDOYFfGlZVw
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Old July 7th, 2016, 09:10 PM
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every bad running problem i have had with my 200tdi has been related to fuel.
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Old July 7th, 2016, 09:25 PM
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Sounds like a fuel supply problem.

Remove the fuel inlet hose to the injection pump. Remove the injection pump solenoid wire. Put hose in bucket and crank the engine. You should get a good strong flow of fuel. If that is okay, I would suspect crap in the solenoid.
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