2.8L jeep diesel - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old August 30th, 2005, 05:33 PM
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2.8L jeep diesel

I know I know. it's from a jeep... but has anyone looked in to this? I searched all over and didn't trun up anything. It seemes to be the right size, enough power, emissions compliant, and is LEGAL for install after the correct paperwork. I does have a hefty electronic component, which isn't great. You would probably have to get a custom adapter made, anything else I'm missing? What do ya'll think?
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  #2  
Old August 30th, 2005, 07:51 PM
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Tim Brown
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Well even though it is from a jeep, it is a Mercedes diesel.
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  #3  
Old August 30th, 2005, 08:12 PM
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can you even get the engine?
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  #4  
Old August 30th, 2005, 09:12 PM
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IIRC it's an italian design, isn't it? But I wouldn't expect to see an engine package available for a while, even if they plan to do it. They're really just getting started on production of the vehicle, and are probably stuffing every block into a Liberty as fast as they can make them.

-Hans

Follow-up Post:

Scratch that, one on E-bay already at $2,500

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/05-Je...94804606QQrdZ1
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  #5  
Old August 30th, 2005, 11:32 PM
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The one on ebay is what sparked my interest. The biggest factor is that it would be 100% legal due to the fact that it is a EPA and DOT certified diesel.
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  #6  
Old August 30th, 2005, 11:38 PM
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I test drove a Liberty with that diesel engine, it was really nice, except it was surrounded by a Jeep Liberty. The salesman was telling me that is was the best off road available and that it would easily take my D90 (that is what I drove to the dealership). I of course offered to go heads up with him, but he decided against it. It is coupled to an automatic 5 speed transmission. I left just wishing that Land Rover would join the club....
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  #7  
Old August 30th, 2005, 11:44 PM
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Any engine gurus think it could work?
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Originally Posted by Lriwater: As you know, most wives don't like Series trucks due to the ride and lack of creature comforts. Girlfriends seem to like those, but some sort of magic happens during the wedding ceremony.
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  #8  
Old August 31st, 2005, 01:10 AM
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Work? Yes.

Difficulty to install? Unknown.

I don't honestly know squat about transmission compatiblity or dimensions just yet, which is the real important factors. If you can't bolt a good tranny behind it, you might be able to do an adapter, but that starts adding a lot of fabrication work. You also need to fabricate engine mounts and possibly a new crossmember..... maybe even some frame modifications. Not hard for somebody that knows how, but time consuming.

Other than that, it's just a matter of figuring out where to put stuff like the ECU, wiring, and some fuel system changeovers.

-Hans
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  #9  
Old August 31st, 2005, 01:57 AM
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The engine is made by VM, which is related somehow to Iveco I believe. I have difficulty believing there could be many show-stoppers with the swap since a 2.8L inline 4 can only be so large. There is a decent amount of extra space in the engine compartment with the 300Tdi, so I'm guessing the tough bits are transferring the wiring and mating the engine to a trans.
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  #10  
Old August 31st, 2005, 01:59 AM
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OK, dug this up.

Manufactured by VM Motori, engine model R 428 DOHC I-4 TurboDiesel 2.8L
(interestingly, they also have a 3.0L on the shelf already from them VR 630)

The same company claime to have made the older 2.4 and 2.5 Diesels for Land Rover, makes me wonder if there are compatiblities to the mounts somewhere? How is their reputation?

http://www.vmmotori.it/uploads/doc/1162.pdf

Stats: 2.8 / Rover 3.9
Bore:94mm / X
Stroke: 100mm / X
Width: 682mm / 660mm
Height:682mm / 685mm
length:540mm / 711mm

So, we're looking at about an inch wider, same height, and almost 7 inches less length than a 3.9
Width is ok, we have room to play with. If that doesn't figure in the exhaust manifold, then the diesel will realistically end up being narrower once installed maybe. With the reduction in length, that is even better, and we have room behind the engine anyways already. Might actually give enough room for a PROPER intercooler and radiatior, or can maybe get away with TDI parts too.

Tranny from the factory on a liberty is a 545RFE. Same one they are stuffing behind the 4.7 Hemi's now. Overseas it DOES come with a 6-speed manual, NSG370 tranny.

Ok, I'm tired now, thats enough research for tonight.


-Hans
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  #11  
Old August 31st, 2005, 02:54 PM
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Hmmm, well, let's compare:

2.8L VM: 160hp and 290 ft/lb torque

2.8L Powerstroke: 135hp and 277 ft/lb torque

Looks good so far - but does the pain of having to mod things to work moreso than what is required on the 2.8PS worth the power and bare engine price?

It should would be nice to find a nice ~3.5L diesel with HP output in the low-mid-2's which would drop in neatly and cleanly
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  #12  
Old August 31st, 2005, 03:35 PM
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VM supplied the first diesel engines for fitment into the RR Classic. FWIW, the Camel Trophy that used RR's were fitted with VM's. The VM wasn't a particularly loved engine in the RR. Noisy slow and had a reputation for cooking head gaskets. That was some years back so I guess they've got better at it now if Mercedes are using them!

There are a couple of neat BMW diesel conversions kicking around in the UK Defenders that have been converted by LR diesel tuner Jeremy J Fearn. He uses the 6-cylinder 2.5 engine used in the 3 and 5 Series BMW's in Europe. Do you guys even get diesel BMW's in the US?

He runs a trick twin turbo BMW unit in his own Bowler racer that puts out 280bhp and 450lb-ft of torque, but it probably wouldn't pass a California smog test...

Kev
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  #13  
Old August 31st, 2005, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev Baldwin
He runs a trick twin turbo BMW unit in his own Bowler racer that puts out 280bhp and 450lb-ft of torque, but it probably wouldn't pass a California smog test...

Kev
Not only would it probably not pass smog, but it would rip my poor R380 into tiny shards of scrap metal

I think that the BMW diesels will be on the way, but California has some new emissions requirements for diesels which were supposed to go into effect in 2007 which were 'moved up', thus barring the sale of the new crop of diesels in CA.
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  #14  
Old August 31st, 2005, 10:30 PM
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David Shechter
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why would a diesel law that won't take effect for another 2 years impact distribution of a vehicle now? Wouldn't it be "grandfathered in" when the law takes effect?
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  #15  
Old September 1st, 2005, 12:21 PM
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From what I understand, the 2007 requirements were moved up to MY2005 in California. We like to be difficult out here when it comes to anything regarding driving a car.

I am still not sure how bad I'd be hosed trying to put a diesel in my '94. I'm sure there would be some regulation I'm breaking somewhere, even if it was cleaner/more fuel efficient than the 3.9L.

Anyone ever run their D90 on CNG? At least then I could use the friggin' carpool lane...
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  #16  
Old September 1st, 2005, 05:18 PM
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I dunno about Calif. But I know that here in VT the no longer sell ANY diesels unless in a fullsize truck or larger. No VWs no Jeeps, and no Mercedes with diesels unless they are used vehicles. Law went into effect in '04
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  #17  
Old September 1st, 2005, 09:28 PM
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Ok... So ASIDE from whether or not it's legal, the bigger question is whether or not it can be mated nicely in a DEFENDER 90 ??

As CVC said... any Engine Guru's want to take a stab at it ?


Nicholas Orros
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  #18  
Old September 1st, 2005, 09:44 PM
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I wonder if that would fit in the Freelander while we are pondering..
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  #19  
Old September 1st, 2005, 10:56 PM
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From what I've been getting out of things.... the 2.8 mates up with the same tranny model as comes behind a lot of Dodge Hemi pickups now. European models with the same engine can also come with a 6-speed manual. Dimensionally, it will fit in place of a 3.9 with no problems at all.

But I think the biggest IF will be the output shaft locations on the compatible transfer cases, and if they will mate with the axle differentials without having to do custom housings.

-Hans
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  #20  
Old September 2nd, 2005, 10:25 AM
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Well the rear diff on a dodge (hemi pickup) is centered and the front axle is on the drives side, so it looks like that T-case isn't going to help any.
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