2.8 vs 300TDI Injectors - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old May 20th, 2015, 07:03 PM
rdavisinva's Avatar
rdavisinva
Status: Offline
Robert Davis
N/A
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 6,789
2.8 vs 300TDI Injectors

Friends in Germany have located a cache of the 2.8 Diesel Injectors which are identical in appearance to the 300TDI Injectors.

These are the same price as the 300TDI injectors: $289.99 a set.

In the Mercedes world, it is considered an upgrade by some to install injectors from a higher displacement engine.

I would think the IP determines the pressure and spray duration while the Injector itself determines the spray pattern and pop-off pressure.

Knowing this I am wondering if there is any demand for these injectors in USA and/or would there be any benefit to installing the 2.8 injectors in the 300TDI.
The injector holders are identical, but the nozzles are different part numbers.

Thoughts...
__________________
RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old May 20th, 2015, 07:06 PM
Overlander's Avatar
Overlander
Status: Offline
mark kellgren
in between D's in an 04 D2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,531
Registry
My 2.8 injectors are out right now with a bosch shop for a clean and test. Just heard they passed. Picking them up tomorrow. If you need pics, numbers or any technical info, let me know before they go back in tomorrow night.

They use the same copper washers (base and spill) as the 300 tdi as well, btw.

Rob, Steve at Safari has quite a bit of 2.8 biz and he's stockpiling spares. You may want to collaborate with him as well.
__________________
Mark Kellgren
KM4BOR

ISIL and al qaeda can go F*ck themselves...
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old May 20th, 2015, 07:12 PM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,232
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
In the Mercedes world, it is considered an upgrade by some to install injectors from a higher displacement engine.

I would think the IP determines the pressure and spray duration while the Injector itself determines the spray pattern and pop-off pressure.
Larger nozzles let you have a shorter injection time, which allows more power. It also lets you increase the injection amount without increasing the injection time. Overall it allows more power than with the smaller nozzles.
__________________
Pissing people off on the "net" since 1983.

Land Rover. Turning owners into mechanics since 1948.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old May 20th, 2015, 07:16 PM
rdavisinva's Avatar
rdavisinva
Status: Offline
Robert Davis
N/A
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 6,789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
My 2.8 injectors are out right now with a bosch shop for a clean and test. Just heard they passed. Picking them up tomorrow. If you need pics, numbers or any technical info, let me know before they go back in tomorrow night.

They use the same copper washers (base and spill) as the 300 tdi as well, btw.

Rob, Steve at Safari has quite a bit of 2.8 biz and he's stockpiling spares. You may want to collaborate with him as well.
I should call Steve, but know his plate is full right now with acquiring RDS.

Ask your folks at Bosch how much a new set costs and PM the answer if they provide it.
Also could you please verify that the pop-off for the 2.8 injector (0 432 193 532) is 201 bar while the 300 TDI (0 432 193 835) is 200 bar.

Thanks Mark

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Larger nozzles let you have a shorter injection time, which allows more power. It also lets you increase the injection amount without increasing the injection time. Overall it allows more power than with the smaller nozzles.
John, you're a wealth of knowledge.
After reading your post, I think the 2.8 injector is worth trying in a 300TDI because it may yield better performance.
__________________
RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old May 20th, 2015, 07:23 PM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,232
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
John. you're a wealth of knowledge.
I think what you are saying is the 2.8 injector is worth trying in a 300TDI because it may yield better performance.
Possibly. It would be nice to know the specs. In the VW diesel scene, there are dozen different nozzles you can swap on depending on your setup. These are all the same type of injectors. I did one day try to look into performance nozzles for the LR TDIs as they appear the same physical size as the VW nozzles.

http://www.kermatdi.com/-vw-nozzles-and-injectors/
__________________
Pissing people off on the "net" since 1983.

Land Rover. Turning owners into mechanics since 1948.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old May 20th, 2015, 07:34 PM
rdavisinva's Avatar
rdavisinva
Status: Offline
Robert Davis
N/A
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 6,789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Possibly. It would be nice to know the specs. In the VW diesel scene, there are dozen different nozzles you can swap on depending on your setup. These are all the same type of injectors. I did one day try to look into performance nozzles for the LR TDIs as they appear the same physical size as the VW nozzles.

Fuel System & Camshafts - Nozzles - KermaTDI
Yes have seen chatter about this on some of the WV forums.
We just got our daughter's Jetta driving after an engine rebuild.

Would also think that anyone who upgraded to the 2.8 Turbo on the 300TDI would benefit from the 2.8 injectors as well.
__________________
RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old May 20th, 2015, 08:46 PM
Overlander's Avatar
Overlander
Status: Offline
mark kellgren
in between D's in an 04 D2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,531
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
I should call Steve, but know his plate is full right now with acquiring RDS.
.
I've spoken with him almost every day this week since Saturday. He's available. He just ordered a bunch of stuff from M&D.

As for cost, I think a new complete injector is like $450ish. My Bosch shop can get new nozzles for about $115.
__________________
Mark Kellgren
KM4BOR

ISIL and al qaeda can go F*ck themselves...
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old May 20th, 2015, 10:04 PM
rdavisinva's Avatar
rdavisinva
Status: Offline
Robert Davis
N/A
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 6,789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
I've spoken with him almost every day this week since Saturday. He's available. He just ordered a bunch of stuff from M&D.

As for cost, I think a new complete injector is like $450ish. My Bosch shop can get new nozzles for about $115.
I can get 4 new ones out of Germany for $289.99.
No shipping as they are hand carried by friends who travel in and out.
__________________
RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old May 20th, 2015, 10:25 PM
Wolf Fabrication's Avatar
Wolf Fabrication
Status: Offline
Sterling Archer
'08 D3
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oahu, HI
Posts: 7,453
Registry
As a cost comparison, SafariHP is charging me $970 for 4 new genuine 300 injectors.
__________________
"The most unreliable car in the world is the most reliable car in the world." -Jeremy Clarkson refering to the Range Rover


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Semper Fi!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old May 21st, 2015, 11:39 AM
ini88's Avatar
ini88
Status: Offline
Daniel Marcello
Alloy+Grit Creative Director
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 2,816
This would be a nice upgrade if they fit. I am looking for recon or new injectors, so if they fit the 300 I would be in for a set

Some good info: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=85172

http://gershon.ucoz.com/BOSCH/DIESEL...DISM-K0001.pdf
__________________
1955 Series I
1975 FC101 Vampire
1994 Defender 90 #916
1967 Lancia Fulvia
1974 Alfa Romeo GTV
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old May 21st, 2015, 11:42 AM
Overlander's Avatar
Overlander
Status: Offline
mark kellgren
in between D's in an 04 D2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,531
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by ini88 View Post
This would be a nice upgrade if they fit. I am looking for recon or new injectors, so if they fit the 300 I would be in for a set

Some good info: Injectors for a 2.8TGV - Defender Forum - LR4x4 - The Land Rover Forum
there is no physical difference between 2.8 and 300 injectors. it's just the nozzle settings.
__________________
Mark Kellgren
KM4BOR

ISIL and al qaeda can go F*ck themselves...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old May 21st, 2015, 11:52 AM
ini88's Avatar
ini88
Status: Offline
Daniel Marcello
Alloy+Grit Creative Director
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 2,816
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
there is no physical difference between 2.8 and 300 injectors. it's just the nozzle settings.
I looked up the part number and looks like they are all 200bar opening pressure, though there is one made by MAXION that doesn't have a opening pressure to it.

KBAL 90 P 37 0 432 193 631 MAXION
__________________
1955 Series I
1975 FC101 Vampire
1994 Defender 90 #916
1967 Lancia Fulvia
1974 Alfa Romeo GTV
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old May 21st, 2015, 12:04 PM
Overlander's Avatar
Overlander
Status: Offline
mark kellgren
in between D's in an 04 D2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,531
Registry
Per my bosch shop, opening is 201 bar.
__________________
Mark Kellgren
KM4BOR

ISIL and al qaeda can go F*ck themselves...
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old May 28th, 2015, 08:10 AM
tdi-rick's Avatar
tdi-rick
Status: Offline
Rick
'98 130CC
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Murrurundi, NSW, Oz
Posts: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by ini88 View Post
I looked up the part number and looks like they are all 200bar opening pressure, though there is one made by MAXION that doesn't have a opening pressure to it.

KBAL 90 P 37 0 432 193 631 MAXION
Maxion was like a detuned 300Tdi that MWM made for the South American market and fitted to other (non Land Rover) vehicles there.

Santiago from Argentina (I think he's on here, he's on the AULRO forum sometimes) said it didn't have a very good reputation.

------ Follow up post added May 28th, 2015 10:13 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Larger nozzles let you have a shorter injection time, which allows more power. It also lets you increase the injection amount without increasing the injection time. Overall it allows more power than with the smaller nozzles.
Which means you can run less advance and lower combustion pressures for the same power.

Having just freshly rebuilt a 300Tdi due to having a cracked piston from too high combustion pressures (I'm guessing) from running near maximum fueling and more advance, the 2.8 injector could be a good thing.

I just bought new 300Tdi injectors from Turners, 2.8 ones from M&D were too exxy for me at the time.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Tags
300tdi, tdi

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FS 300TDI Injectors set of 4 rdavisinva For Sale - Parts 56 February 5th, 2016 10:15 AM
200/300tdi genuine parts (injectors, headbolts, decarb gasket set, etc) nathanwind For Sale - Parts 15 April 2nd, 2015 06:32 PM
300TDI new injectors - smoking like mad jaherring Defender Technical Discussions 4 May 2nd, 2011 11:58 AM
FS Rover V8 injectors ECR For Sale - Parts 0 March 11th, 2008 12:28 PM
fuel injectors not working matt Defender Technical Discussions 1 May 24th, 2007 06:28 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:22 AM.


Copyright