2.8 TGV Pilot Bearing - Page 2 - Defender Source
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  #21  
Old April 4th, 2014, 07:28 AM
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there is a comfort in having a manual that covers everything. for the 2.8, there isnt much, which makes you dependent on a very small crowd of English speaking people. Now that I've done my timing belt, I've done most everything maintenace wise and dont have many service mysteries left, but I still can't help you here. thats why I went with an M&D kit so I know it all matches.
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  #22  
Old April 4th, 2014, 10:25 AM
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300tdi r380

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
23 spline is V8...
The TDI clutch disc fits the splines on the V8 R380 we have in the shop.
For clarification, both the V8 R380 and the 300TDI R380 must have the same number of splines.
BUT
The transmission pictured sure looks like a 300TDI NOT V8.
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  #23  
Old April 4th, 2014, 10:39 AM
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The number on the transmission indicates its a 60J model. Serial number is 60A 0276501 J but I could not find many details on how to decipher this other than the first two numbers followed by the last letter J.
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  #24  
Old April 4th, 2014, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyrad View Post
The number on the transmission indicates its a 60J model. Serial number is 60A 0276501 J but I could not find many details on how to decipher this other than the first two numbers followed by the last letter J.
60A was V8 for the LT77, so probably the same for the R380. What is the diameter of the shaft at the pilot bearing? 3/4" is V8, 7/8" is diesel.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
The TDI clutch disc fits the splines on the V8 R380 we have in the shop.
For clarification, both the V8 R380 and the 300TDI R380 must have the same number of splines.
And there I though the 300TDI and 200TDI were the same.

V8: http://www.clutchtools.com/index.php?productID=39433
Traditional 4 cylinder Rover to the 200TDI.... http://www.clutchtools.com/index.php?productID=39436
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  #25  
Old April 4th, 2014, 12:15 PM
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A couple of good pictures here: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=54348 showing how the end of the shaft appears with V8 and TDI input shafts with a 300TDI bellhousing. As you can see, the splines on the TDI shaft stick out further.

edit: Your photo looks like a 300TDI shaft to me. Could be a V8 box with the input shaft swapped.
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  #26  
Old April 4th, 2014, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
And there I though the 300TDI and 200TDI were the same.
Good point...
Then for further clarification the V8, 200TDI, and 300TDI engines use a clutch driven plate with the same number of splines.

If we want to be all inclusive, the splines also match on the 90/110 2.25 and 2.5 setups.
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  #27  
Old April 4th, 2014, 01:22 PM
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my r380 is a 60A V8 tranny, and I have a V8 bellhousing. That's how the M&D kit is designed for a V8 conversion.
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  #28  
Old April 4th, 2014, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
my r380 is a 60A V8 tranny, and I have a V8 bellhousing. That's how the M&D kit is designed for a V8 conversion.
The transmission picture posted on this thread is not for a V8.
Here is a picture showing the shape of the V8 Belhousing compared to your Belhousing.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

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ID:	92387   Click image for larger version

Name:	300TDI.jpg
Views:	43
Size:	63.9 KB
ID:	92388  

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UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #29  
Old April 4th, 2014, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
The transmission picture posted on this thread is not for a V8.
Here is a picture showing the shape of the V8 Belhousing compared to your Belhousing.
Yes, it has a 300TDI bellhousing, but you can put one on a V8 R380, which people have done and that is what we were trying to clarify.
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  #30  
Old April 4th, 2014, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Yes, it has a 300TDI bellhousing, but you can put one on a V8 R380, which people have done and that is what we were trying to clarify.
Very very very tricky...
Use a TDI belhousing bolted to a V8 transmission to get the "2 halves" to mate up and then work out any differences with special parts among the flywheel, clutch and pilot bushing (when and where needed).

And to think I just finished making an adapter to mate a 300TDI up to the V8 belhousing...
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

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UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #31  
Old April 4th, 2014, 02:18 PM
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Okay... What happens....

Person owns a V8 Defender with an R380....

They install a TDI and simply install a 300TDI bellhousing...

They leave everything else alone... It "works", but there is no pilot bearing and the clutch spline engagement is not correct...

I know you think it is crazy, but not everyone that does engine swaps does them correctly!!!

In any case, it does look like this box has the correct input shaft from the photos.
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  #32  
Old April 4th, 2014, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Okay... What happens....

Person owns a V8 Defender with an R380....

They install a TDI and simply install a 300TDI bellhousing...

They leave everything else alone... It "works", but there is no pilot bearing and the clutch spline engagement is not correct...

I know you think it is crazy, but not everyone that does engine swaps does them correctly!!!

In any case, it does look like this box has the correct input shaft from the photos.
Understood and very educational.

Now I feel better about the custom adapter that we made to mate a TDI up to a V8 belhousing. We are using a steel sleeve to hold the Land Rover V8 pilot bushing, so it is replaceable "out of the box".
This won't do Andy any good because he has a TDI primary pinion... is that correct?
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UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #33  
Old April 4th, 2014, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
What is the diameter of the shaft at the pilot bearing? 3/4" is V8, 7/8" is diesel.
Shaft is 0.875" and the pilot bearing ID is sitting at 0.900" I'm thinking it was machined oversize to aid in fitment of the transmission, but I would rather it be a proper fit with only a few thou clearance. Bad enough I have a J gearbox I would like it to last as long as possible.
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  #34  
Old April 4th, 2014, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
What is the diameter of the shaft at the pilot bearing? 3/4" is V8, 7/8" is diesel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyrad View Post
Shaft is 0.875"...
0.875 = 7/8" which is a TDI Diesel Primary Pinion.
Is this correct?
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UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #35  
Old April 4th, 2014, 08:39 PM
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Unfortunately I have one in front of me which I wish was in my motor which I further wish was in my truck. Anyways the ID is 0.875, OD is 1.065.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
0.875 = 7/8" which is a TDI Diesel Primary Pinion.
Is this correct?
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  #36  
Old April 4th, 2014, 09:48 PM
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So it sounds like I have tdi R380 gearbox and the corresponding input shaft but the bore of the crank is different. The OD of the pilot in my hand is 1.504".

To summarize there seems to be a difference in R380s between the TDI and the V8 but to fit to a 2.8 TGV you need a special pilot to mate with the crank. If I recall the crank was one of the modifications they did to the 2.8 so that makes sense. The shaft on the tdi may be a touch longer and I will confirm this weekend that the splines engage fully into the clutch plate which I am almost positive they do, a little too much I suspect. Remember the pilot has a groove worn into it from the hub of the clutch plate which may have prevented the plate from sitting flat on the flywheel allowing the thing to slip a little. I'm sure the force of the pressure plate on the clutch plate would have seated it well enough but might as well get it right. That would also address the issue I have seen of the end of the splines hitting the pilot as well. A small modification to shorten that if the replacement pilot is the same length.

Now I am waiting on M&D to get me their end of the equation with all of the bits to clean up this entire installation. The engine bay is a mess and now is a good time to get into that too.

Guys, I think we have the answers I was looking for and thank you all very much for your input. Greatly appreciated and a big thank you to this forum for all the help over the last few Defenders. This is a killer resource without the crap you get on Discoweb if you own one of those thirsty buggers.
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  #37  
Old April 4th, 2014, 09:57 PM
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Workshop manual: http://www.lrch.nl/sites/default/fil...p%20Manual.pdf No help for the pilot bush question, but a good thing to have if you need to work on it.
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  #38  
Old April 4th, 2014, 09:59 PM
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http://www.mdengineering.co.uk/index.php?act=faq

Quote:
Can I fit the new HS 2.8L TGV engine in place of the ‘300’ Tdi without any conversion parts?
No! The engine differs in several ways,

2. The rear end of the crankshaft is different. We supply a special crankshaft adapter and bush in the kit.
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  #39  
Old April 5th, 2014, 03:35 PM
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From all my measurements the shaft goes into the pilot bore 1.2" and the end of the splines definitely hit the bushing. I think if the new bushing is the same length I'll have it machined down 50-100 thou to prevent that. This means that the splines engage 101% into the clutch so all that is good, just need to figure out how much the clutch should float between the pressure plate and the flywheel.
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