2.8 international 4 cylinder diesel. Anyone have this motor? - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old February 25th, 2011, 07:21 PM
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Jeff
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Question 2.8 international 4 cylinder diesel. Anyone have this motor?

Hello,

Im trying to do some research on the 2.8 international 4 cylinder diesel. I understand that it is a good fit for Defenders, that is why I am here asking. I was talking to a mechanic that installs them in Defenders and Disco II's. I guess my question is, is this motor "Legal" to install in US vehicles that are NOT 25 years old? I have an '00 DII, and I live in the states, my state dose not require emissions testing, so im good up to that point. I have read over the EPA's engine swap fact sheet, so I "think" I know what im inquiring about. But I never know. I would like some input for people that have this motor in the US, any insight is appreciated.

Thanks all,

Jeff
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  #2  
Old February 25th, 2011, 08:20 PM
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Eddie
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Have it, love it. call david at motor and diesel he can answer any questions you have about importing it.
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  #3  
Old February 25th, 2011, 10:11 PM
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Jeff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e2orlando.com View Post
Have it, love it. call david at motor and diesel he can answer any questions you have about importing it.

Hey e2orlando.com. I believe it was you I was talking to via email, you do the swaps in Florida? Do you have Davids number?

Thanks
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  #4  
Old February 26th, 2011, 01:08 AM
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Jeff
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I have been doing a little research and found out some promising info. I have learned that the International is really just a new, "hot rod" 300tdi. Thats nice. However, I would like to know how the EPA sees this motor. For instance, with my Disco being an '00 it falls into the OBDII area. This is my only concern. I "think" is motor meets the EPA's standards, but I dont know for sure. Could some one clear the air?
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Old February 26th, 2011, 04:25 AM
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Keith Kreutzer
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A 2.8 is an EPA "lead ballon" in an OBD2 car, if you're tested to federal levels you will fail.
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  #6  
Old February 26th, 2011, 08:24 AM
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http://www.mdengineering.co.uk/
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  #7  
Old February 26th, 2011, 12:36 PM
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Jeff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revor View Post
A 2.8 is an EPA "lead ballon" in an OBD2 car, if you're tested to federal levels you will fail.

That is what I feared. But I have a question. How do people have this motor and the 300tdi in rovers here in the states? Arron at Rovers Out East was selling a nice green '96 DI with a 300tdi in it. HOW? I remember I was driving in Colorado a few years back and I got passed by a DI that had a 300tdi in it. HOW do people get away with this?

That damn OBDII is pissing me off!
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  #8  
Old February 26th, 2011, 04:32 PM
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Todd Miller
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Depends on your state emission laws. If your state does not test diesels then you are fine, many don't. In GA all I had to do was take my Disco to a state emissions testing station and they verified that it was now a diesel. Then the title office changed the title to diesel and no more emission tests. your results may vary.
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Old February 26th, 2011, 04:51 PM
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David Lucas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discotdi View Post
Depends on your state emission laws. If your state does not test diesels then you are fine, many don't. In GA all I had to do was take my Disco to a state emissions testing station and they verified that it was now a diesel. Then the title office changed the title to diesel and no more emission tests. your results may vary.
Pendy's point about federal law does NOT depend on any state law. However, what Todd says is true that each state or county may have different local rules about the swap.

Coldwater- just because you have seen it on the road does not necessarily make it legal (or not legal for that matter).
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Old February 26th, 2011, 05:29 PM
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Hey all,

Well I sent an email to David at M&D with regards to the EPA and OBDII for this motor. What my understanding is, is the following... this motor IS LEGAL for US vehicles because it DOES PASS the EPAs emission testing and important to me, it is Federally Legal. This is of course for any vehicle that is older than 1996, due to that being OBDI. Now for vehicles being OBDII... problems... BUT in reading the EPA's Engine Switching Fact Sheet I learned this, "For light-duty vehicles, installation of a light-duty engine into a different light-duty vehicle by any person would be considered tampering unless the resulting vehicle is identical (with regard to all emissions related parts, engine design parameters, and engine calibrations)" (EPA Engine Switching Fact Sheet Page2).

And this is what David told me early today, "
The Disco II V8’s we convert are wired so that all the warning lights are out and all the normal functions work, ABS, Traction control, Cruise control ETC. We retain the original ECU as it communicates with the BECM, engine speed, TPS and temperature signals are used". This is also what e2orlando is able to do, I think...

Who knows what OBDII is looking for? Is it a computer they would use to hook up to the car from under the steering wheel that would be able to read parameters of the motors operations? I have no Idea what im talking about now...

What I got from talking to David is, they can get the motor installed and working with the DII's ECU so that all the normally computer controlled elements in the DII still work. That leads me to believe that OBDII would still work...?


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  #11  
Old February 26th, 2011, 07:59 PM
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Keith Kreutzer
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Sorry the OBD2 will not work... It's a skirt around the law. In OBD2 the engine is controlled by a computer, period, I wouldn't invest 10K in a motor and hope that I can figure away around the law. They figure you out and you could be in serious trouble, that's not to say that most emmisions places actually know what to look for, I'm just sayin'

I have a TD5 in a D1 that was hard enough to convince the "law" and it is OBD2 complient (to a point), i conspired with the authorities for nearly a year before I did the conversion.
I'd save my $$$ and buy a 25 year old defender to which I can do anything I wanted to.
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  #12  
Old February 27th, 2011, 02:19 PM
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Yep... well that sucks. I always thought this would be the case with a DII. Looks like if I want a diesel, gotta sell my Disco and buy an older Rover.

Thanks for all the good info.

Jeff
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  #13  
Old February 27th, 2011, 02:56 PM
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I went through all this before I converted the D90 to 2.8.

Keith is spot on.
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  #14  
Old February 27th, 2011, 07:42 PM
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I have several in the shop right now and it baffles me the level of creativity that the owners have to go through to keep them on the road. I can't even imagine the liability issues when one needs to use insurance.
Also fairly baffled at M&D still trying to sell this as a US legal motor. It might be a " legal in parts of Fla, Co, Me and [fill in the State] but will have to be 23 yrs old to be EPA (US) legal by default (age related compliance).
Not that I'm anti diesel or anything....far from it......
When the price of fuel spikes the phone starts ringing and much of it is people who have read on the web that you can stick a diesel in their D friggin' II. It's the same conversation over and over.
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new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

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Old February 28th, 2011, 04:04 PM
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Ok, I run Prins Motoren in The Netherlands. Beside M&D we were importing these engines and selling for Land Rover conversions all over the world. www.landrovermotor.com

We have always been honoust to clients. The 2.8 TGV DOES NOT comply to any EPA nor to any EURO regulation. Therefor any engine swop in a car build after 1999 is illegal in Europe (also UK) according to European legislation.

For US I am not aware of the exact rules, only that cars older then 23 years are EPA excempt. This engine is ABSOLUTELY not OBDII, nor can it be converted to this.

Maybe state laws might be different but getting this engine in to the country is a problem already. Last year I had huge problems importing a 2.25 gas engine in to the States for my 27 year old 88''. All problems were related to the fact there was no EPA document or sign with this 30 year old engine. I found out that there is an excemption for importing cars older then 23 years but there is NO excemption for importing older engines. Accordint to US import laws all engines seems to have EPA.
Only after weeks and through a kind of hard-ship clause they lett me import this.

Having said this, it is a great eninge. No electronics, plenty of power. I am running in Defender with this engine in Europe and in the US.
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