2.5NA stop solenoid...melted - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old August 7th, 2014, 10:09 AM
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wayne p
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2.5NA stop solenoid...melted

So, truck's been running great...still is, just leaking a lot of fuel.

Running some errands after work yesterday w/ no apparent problems, stop by a friend's house and notice I am leaving a puddle of fuel...darn I just replaced the injector lines... I take a look and the stop solenoid is leaking, the blue insulator is a bit melted and it, or the fuel on it, is smoking!

The obvious answer is a new solenoid, but has anyone else seen this or have any thoughts on cause? Voltage to the solenoid is normal and I did just do some electrical work (add oil pressure gauge and properly rewire auxiliary lights, neither should affect the solenoid circuit). The solenoid looks old, so it may just be its time to go...

thanks, w
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  #2  
Old August 7th, 2014, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitchrollyaw View Post
So, truck's been running great...still is, just leaking a lot of fuel.

Running some errands after work yesterday w/ no apparent problems, stop by a friend's house and notice I am leaving a puddle of fuel...darn I just replaced the injector lines... I take a look and the stop solenoid is leaking, the blue insulator is a bit melted and it, or the fuel on it, is smoking!

The obvious answer is a new solenoid, but has anyone else seen this or have any thoughts on cause? Voltage to the solenoid is normal and I did just do some electrical work (add oil pressure gauge and properly rewire auxiliary lights, neither should affect the solenoid circuit). The solenoid looks old, so it may just be its time to go...

thanks, w
The leak is causing a short. That wire has 12v's to it as long as the switch is in the start or run positions. Personally if its smoking I wouldn't run it. Under hood fires happen fast even on diesels. Ask me how I know......
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  #3  
Old August 7th, 2014, 10:38 AM
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"Ask me how I know......" yeah, me too; Midget 1500. I try to avoid fires.

I literally drove it 1/4 mile to the top of my driveway the coasted home.

I am learning that the DPA pump is apparently pretty widely used in the US so i have a replacement coming from a local diesel shop and may get a spare from Rovah when Trevor gets back.

Thanks.

w
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  #4  
Old August 7th, 2014, 06:38 PM
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If your having leaking problems with your NA pump try running Shell Biodiesel. My NA pump was leaking from several locations. I started using the Shell Biodiesel and after about a week no more leaks and I noticed a marked increase in performance and less smoke. I'm not sure if it's available in your area but it worked for me and a buddy running a Volkswagen diesel.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 08:31 PM
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The stop solenoids have a sealing washer, generally cooper, but have also seen aluminum.
If the solenoid is loose or has been overtightened and damaged the washer or worse, well what you have there is a leak.
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  #6  
Old August 8th, 2014, 12:49 AM
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Mine isn't leaking from the crush washer, it looks as if the blue insulator on the top melted than partially separated from the barrel of the solenoid.

Did some poking around and cross referencing and found a Delphi one for Deere and Perkins applications at a diesel store for $61. Interesting that the Delphi unit appears to have a pretty heavy crimp at the top... Also interesting is that it looks like RN carries the "OEM" Delphi for $259!... Was not going to pay that, but I am very wary of the $16 Allmakes/Britpart ones out there. May grab one of those as a carry along spare.

We shall see.
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  #7  
Old August 8th, 2014, 05:32 AM
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You can remove the 12v wire, unscrew the solenoid and pull the plunger out of it, then refit.


you'll have to stall it to stop the engine, but at least you won't have to worry about any electrics & fuel mixing! (and remember to insulate up the spade terminal on the 12v wire)
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Old August 10th, 2014, 10:12 AM
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Thank you.

Do you have to bleed the injector pump after replacement? I can't find any details on the replacement, none in my green book, but seems simple enough.

W
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  #9  
Old August 10th, 2014, 10:56 AM
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I would say yes, but as you say, it's just a 10mm bolt to undo them prime the lift pump lever.

You /may/ get away with a lot of cranking to bleed it, but it's an easy enough job to bleed.
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Old August 10th, 2014, 11:01 AM
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Any time you let air into the fuel system, you'll need to bleed it out.
This can be accomplished by starting the engine and cracking the injectors a few times until the engine runs and revs properly.

I've posted this up a few times before:
If you change your fuel system to route fuel from the tank through a sedimenter to a 12V pump (that comes on when you turn the ignition on), to the lift pump, to the fuel filter, and then on to the IP, you will never have to bleed your fuel system again.

You could drive it until your tank and fuel system is dry, then fill up with fuel, switch on the key, wait a few minutes, and then start your engine WITHOUT any air left in the fuel system.
A self bleeding fuel system often eliminates hours of wasted time trying to bleed a system with a single lift pump.
It also eliminated a single point of failure, the lift pump itself.

The sedimenter will trap water and particulate leaving the fuel filter clean and water free.
There is a drain on the sedimenter to purge anything trapped like water, sediment, dirt, rust particles, what have you.
Then when you drain the sedimenter and air is introduced, no worries because the entire fuel system is self bleeding.
Reliability is paramount.
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  #11  
Old August 10th, 2014, 11:14 AM
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Does anyone know if the 2.5 N/A shares the same fuel shut-off as the 300TDI?
I have a new 300TDI fuel shut-off solenoid on the shelf you can have for $25 if needed.
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  #12  
Old August 10th, 2014, 11:16 AM
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In addition to all this advice, when an electrical component melts, that usually means the ground isn't sufficient to pass the power consumption of the component. Since the solenoid is ground to the engine block, I'd highly suggest checking your engine to frame ground strap. If you're engine has too much ohms resistance to the battery ground, it could cause issues like hard starting, and ground resistance senders (temp, egt) to be off too. In a petrol, bad block ground is a nightmare. In a mechanical diesel, it would not be so apparent, since the fuel stop solenoid is the only device that really needs power on the engine to run.
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  #13  
Old August 10th, 2014, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitchrollyaw View Post
Mine isn't leaking from the crush washer, it looks as if the blue insulator on the top melted than partially separated from the barrel of the solenoid.

Did some poking around and cross referencing and found a Delphi one for Deere and Perkins applications at a diesel store for $61. Interesting that the Delphi unit appears to have a pretty heavy crimp at the top... Also interesting is that it looks like RN carries the "OEM" Delphi for $259!... Was not going to pay that, but I am very wary of the $16 Allmakes/Britpart ones out there. May grab one of those as a carry along spare.

We shall see.
Wayne,

Can you post up that Delphi number please? Maybe then we can see if it's the same for the 300 and others.
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  #14  
Old August 10th, 2014, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Does anyone know if the 2.5 N/A shares the same fuel shut-off as the 300TDI?
I have a new 300TDI fuel shut-off solenoid on the shelf you can have for $25 if needed.
Different part numbers and they look different.
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  #15  
Old August 11th, 2014, 09:56 AM
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The Delphi pn is 7185-900w which xref's to CAV 7167-200a, Deere RE22744, and fits the DPS and DPA pumps. There are a lot of white box parts for this application as well as knock-offs, so I went for a Delphi unit from what appears to be a reputable supplier..and I bought a spare...we will see.

The 300tdi uses a different solenoid...Bosch type?

My truck had a bit of a ground issue which I took care of a while back, but that certainly could have contributed to this problem.

w
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Old August 11th, 2014, 12:45 PM
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I agree with the grounding issue. I had all kinds of problem with electrical on my 110 NA it all came down to improper battery cables (not heavy enough gauge wires). The system uses some heavy gauge battery cables. Any thing lighter than I believe 2 gauge wires and your going to have over heat and melting issues.
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Old August 13th, 2014, 09:46 AM
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Received the first solenoid I ordered (before I did my Delphi research), a FLAG from Germany...looked decent.

I installed it, torqued to spec, bled the injector pump and no start. Removed it and the solenoid plunger was cocked in the bore. I could not feel any burrs or anything so I reinstalled carefully keeping the spring and plunger aligned as best I could, bled pump and it started, but ran awfully, clearly missing on 1-2 cylinders. Damn... Then it would not turn off, kept idling slowly w/ the key out, so I stalled it. Turned the key on and off several times and heard the solenoid click. Bled again, started again and ran a bit better but not great then within a minute or so she started to run fine. Repeated that several times and she's seems to be starting and idling normally. Power now seems OK. Weird, everything I read said these would not self-bleed in any way....

Anyone have any thoughts? I can't explain the no shutoff, maybe the solenoid hung open or needed to get fuel in it to operate smoothly?

Maybe I should just drive it since it seems to be running well...
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  #18  
Old August 13th, 2014, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitchrollyaw View Post
Received the first solenoid I ordered (before I did my Delphi research), a FLAG from Germany...looked decent.

I installed it, torqued to spec, bled the injector pump and no start. Removed it and the solenoid plunger was cocked in the bore. I could not feel any burrs or anything so I reinstalled carefully keeping the spring and plunger aligned as best I could, bled pump and it started, but ran awfully, clearly missing on 1-2 cylinders. Damn... Then it would not turn off, kept idling slowly w/ the key out, so I stalled it. Turned the key on and off several times and heard the solenoid click. Bled again, started again and ran a bit better but not great then within a minute or so she started to run fine. Repeated that several times and she's seems to be starting and idling normally. Power now seems OK. Weird, everything I read said these would not self-bleed in any way....

Anyone have any thoughts? I can't explain the no shutoff, maybe the solenoid hung open or needed to get fuel in it to operate smoothly?

Maybe I should just drive it since it seems to be running well...
I'd just drive it. Sounds like you had air that bled out.
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  #19  
Old August 13th, 2014, 12:34 PM
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Have you added any electrical components to your truck? It's worth checking to make sure no residual voltage remains in your solenoid power lead. It doesn't take much to keep it open after start. My 2.5 NA was showing .002 volts with key off. I was having a similar shut off issue. Turn out an added cooling fan was causing the problem.
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Old August 13th, 2014, 01:50 PM
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Actually Bish, I have done some recent electrical work. This also came to mind, but I don't seem to have any voltage leaking through the solenoid feed when off according to the Fluke and nothing I did seemed like it would affect the solenoid circuit.

I added an oil pressure gauge w/ power fed off the switched circuit to the rear wiper/wash and I properly re-wired some auxiliary lights w/ a fused feed to the switch off of a brown unswitched wire and a fused main feed to the relay direct from the battery.

I'll take her for a shake down drive tonight to see where I am at.
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