2.5 NA Diesel - Won't run - Newb questions - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old June 21st, 2013, 06:01 PM
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Don Bunnell
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2.5 NA Diesel - Won't run - Newb questions

So I take the Blue Mule out for a maiden voyage this past week and since it was low on fuel decide a trip to the gas station to fill up would be good. Well, about half way there she just stop running. I would turn the key to start and at times it would start to run and then die when left to idle or giving some throttle.

I have been reading the archives/internet search and think it could be the fuel pump. I have no idea of the history of the vehicle so I ordered a fuel filter from AB and a fuel pump from Trevor/RovahFarm.

I know I should have checked the fuel pump prior to ordering but the thing is so damn filthy that I figured I would get a new one and at least work with a clean/new one.

Question 1: If the truck was driveway running well for a week or so of start, go up and down the side street and then won't run on a longer drive what should I look for?

Question 2: I ordered part number 563146 from Trevor. The current fuel pump looks just like it vs. the STC1190 which is the number for 2.5 NA Diesel

563146
http://www.lrseries.com/resources/us...-LIFT-PUMP.jpg

STC1190
http://www.lrseries.com/resources/us...-LIFT-PUMP.jpg

Is there anyway to tell the spec/year of my 2.5? If it is an early 2.5 motor, is there any advantage/disadvantage to it? Or are they the same save for a weird parts like the fuel pump being different between the years? Trevor said the first few years of the Defenders are bastards and could have odd parts - some leftover Series and some new Defender pieces depending on the build.

Question 3: Oil change items will be Rotella 15W-40 oil with a 1452 NAPA filter. Good or bad? And fuel filter part number: RTC6079

Question 4: Any good online sources/reading for the 2.5 Diesel (in particular the Series / Early Defender 2.5)? Videos/pictures would be awesome but if I read written instructions about 20x I can usually figure it out.

I've attached pics of the fuel pump and the filter.

Thanks in advance. Coming off a 3.9 I know I have some learning (hell I still have a lot to learn with the 3.9) to do but like the fact that the 2.5 at least appears more simple.
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  #2  
Old June 21st, 2013, 06:38 PM
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You may have run it out of fuel. If it sucked some air it is done for until you bleed the lines. If it was running and just quit, I would suspect this first.
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  #3  
Old June 21st, 2013, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
You may have run it out of fuel. If it sucked some air it is done for until you bleed the lines. If it was running and just quit, I would suspect this first.
Thanks o2batsea - I was thinking that but the needle on the fuel gauge did move making me think it wasn't bone dry. Although with this truck who knows.

Hopefully the parts come in soon and I will swap the filter, pump - and oil & filter and get it back running. I haven't driven a Defender in over a month and getting a little itchy.
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  #4  
Old June 21st, 2013, 07:41 PM
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These do not self prime. One bit of air any it won't run. You need to prime per the workshop manual. The lift pumps die all of the time...
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  #5  
Old June 21st, 2013, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
These do not self prime. One bit of air any it won't run. You need to prime per the workshop manual. The lift pumps die all of the time...
Thanks Red - I thought that was the case about the lift pumps and with the amount of grim on the current one and not knowing anything about the vehicle, $40 for a new pump would be well spent.

I read a previous post from you about the workshop manual and the bleeding/prime procedure. Will print that section out and give it a go.
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  #6  
Old June 22nd, 2013, 06:53 AM
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Changing the filters can only help. If you were really low on fuel you may have also have picked up some crap in the bottom of the tank.
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 08:47 AM
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Out of fuel...

As Bill says, you most likely ran the engine out of fuel.
Diesels usually don't just stop running.
A new to diesel fuel bleeding mechanic can waste days trying to get his engine to run.
So save yourself a lot of trouble...

Get yourself a 12V low pressure fuel pump and mount it along the frame rail so it pumps when the key is switched on.

ideally, you would mount a sedimenter before the 12V pump to trap, sludge, water, and particulate before the pump.
Why?
This 12V pump will push fuel through the filter and lift pump then in and out of the injection pump and get rid of the trapped air.
You probably had some sludge that got sucked up as well.

If you decide to ignore this advice and are able to get it running, don't trust your gauge... If it is going below half a tank fill it up.
BUT
If you take this advice and run out of fuel again, all you need to do is add a gallon or 2 and leave the key on for a few minutes, then get in start up and drive away.
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  #8  
Old June 22nd, 2013, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Milks View Post
Changing the filters can only help. If you were really low on fuel you may have also have picked up some crap in the bottom of the tank.
Thanks Capt - I was thinking of changing filters and adding fuel at the house but just couldn't help myself for going for a ride. It was dumping rain out at the time too - which is typical.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
As Bill says, you most likely ran the engine out of fuel.
Diesels usually don't just stop running.
A new to diesel fuel bleeding mechanic can waste days trying to get his engine to run.
So save yourself a lot of trouble...

Get yourself a 12V low pressure fuel pump and mount it along the frame rail so it pumps when the key is switched on.

ideally, you would mount a sedimenter before the 12V pump to trap, sludge, water, and particulate before the pump.
Why?
This 12V pump will push fuel through the filter and lift pump then in and out of the injection pump and get rid of the trapped air.
You probably had some sludge that got sucked up as well.

If you decide to ignore this advice and are able to get it running, don't trust your gauge... If it is going below half a tank fill it up.
BUT
If you take this advice and run out of fuel again, all you need to do is add a gallon or 2 and leave the key on for a few minutes, then get in start up and drive away.
Thanks Robert. Really appreciate the extra help/info.

Would this little Mr. Gasket pump be fine? http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...9552_200609552

Do you have any more sedimenter's for sale? Seems like a straight forward setup. Would the electric pump and sedimenter be good for a future motor upgrade (i.e. OM617 or 200tdi)? Sorry if the questions are rudimentary - I know I have a lot to learn about the diesels.
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  #9  
Old June 22nd, 2013, 02:03 PM
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Sedimenter & 12V pump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by don View Post
Would this little Mr. Gasket pump be fine? http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...9552_200609552

Do you have any more sedimenter's for sale? Seems like a straight forward setup. Would the electric pump and sedimenter be good for a future motor upgrade (i.e. OM617 or 200tdi)? Sorry if the questions are rudimentary - I know I have a lot to learn about the diesels.
The pump you found should work fine.
We use the Airtex E8011.
We have 4 sedimenters left if you need one.
They are $119 + shipping with Viton seals.
We also have spin-on filter heads for $69 with all the fittings plugs and a new fuel filter.
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UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #10  
Old June 24th, 2013, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
The pump you found should work fine.
We use the Airtex E8011.
We have 4 sedimenters left if you need one.
They are $119 + shipping with Viton seals.
We also have spin-on filter heads for $69 with all the fittings plugs and a new fuel filter.
Thanks for the info - the E8011 comes up as a 6v.

Would the Airtex E8153 be the better match?
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  #11  
Old June 24th, 2013, 06:07 PM
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Just searched and found this thread:

http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...ad.php?t=44012

Looks like the E8153 doesn't work well and the E812S is the way to go. Will order the E812S to go with that sedimenter.

I'm going to link to this post too just in case people stumble on a search: http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...9&postcount=48

Pics of the sedimenter and pump installed.
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  #12  
Old June 24th, 2013, 07:03 PM
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Even I cannot type the right part number.

E0812S should be the correct number. I just ordered one on Amazon.
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  #13  
Old June 24th, 2013, 08:10 PM
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The E8012S is correct.

The E8011 is for 6 volt applications, so is incorrect (my typo).

The E8012S is correct.
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  #14  
Old June 28th, 2013, 11:16 AM
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A quick update. Not running yet but

- changed the oil (I know doesn't do anything but wanted to get it done as the filter looked old)
- swapped fuel filter - it looked old and was missing an o-ring and some looked a little old.
- swapped fuel pump. This might have been the culprit. Pretty dry inside and looked to be leaking over time. For $40 it seems an easy thing to do/swap
- new electric fuel pump is almost done. Bolted in just have to cut the fuel lines for it.
- sedimenter is on the way - hoping today it will get delivered and I can install tomorrow. I'd love to get this thing back up and running.
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  #15  
Old July 1st, 2013, 06:30 PM
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Got this sum bitch started and running!

Actually once I got the sedimenter and pump installed I didn't take much. The stock fuel filter sucks balls and was pissing diesel all over. I cranked down on the little 11mm bolt until it stopped which seemed way out of torque specs :shrug: I think that ended up bleeding it, haha. Turned the key and she fired right up. The fuel filter was leaking again so I tighten it some more.

The 12v pump works treats. First time I turned the key I could hear it working. And the sedimenter is on the inside of the rail and should be out of harms way. The pics rdavisinVA posted showed it on the outside rail but the "IN" marking was on the right side so I did it this way.

I wasn't sure how to hook up the fuel lines so took the rubber line pieces that came with the pump and cut the 2 pieces into 4. Each piece fit nicely on the nipples of the pump and the sedimenter and fit over the Rover fuel line. I bought some SS clamps to fit over the brass/steel nipples and used the tension clamps to fit over the rover fuel line.

Covered myself and the driveway with diesel fuel but all part of the learning game I guess.

Thanks for all the help to the folks that responded on here and the couple guys that PM'd with phone numbers to call with any questions (f**kin' really cool of you!)
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  #16  
Old July 2nd, 2013, 07:52 AM
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Great job. Just gotta love the smell of diesel in the morning........
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  #17  
Old July 2nd, 2013, 08:08 AM
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Glad you are in business man!
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  #18  
Old July 2nd, 2013, 08:31 AM
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With a diesel. hard starting is almost always an air leak or clogged filter problem, assuming the lift pump works. On the sedimenter the reason to put it on the outside of the frame rail is so that you don't have to lay on your back under the truck to drain/clear it. In my world that event will always be in a deluge or when the truck is in several inches of mud.....those damn rover gods
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranewman View Post
Great job. Just gotta love the smell of diesel in the morning........
Thanks - I had diesel all over me and smelt like shit. And have a hang-over like headache this morning which I am not sure if it is allergies or breathing fumes yesterday, haha

Quote:
Originally Posted by josh-man View Post
Glad you are in business man!
Thanks Josh!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
With a diesel. hard starting is almost always an air leak or clogged filter problem, assuming the lift pump works. On the sedimenter the reason to put it on the outside of the frame rail is so that you don't have to lay on your back under the truck to drain/clear it. In my world that event will always be in a deluge or when the truck is in several inches of mud.....those damn rover gods
I would have loved mounting it on the outside as I got 28 year old frame rust and dirt all over me and in my ears. But I could only think of that way to mount the sedimenter. I will be the same way - either the Rover gods or Murphy's Law usually get me.
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  #20  
Old July 2nd, 2013, 10:45 AM
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I refuse to wear my good boots over to Robert's. He loves spilling diesel or skank oil on them. Ahhh, diesel smells better than napalm in the morning.
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