2.5 n/a to 200tdi-transmision? - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old April 4th, 2014, 11:11 AM
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2.5 n/a to 200tdi-transmision?

I have the 2.5n/a diesel. I am planning a 200tdi swap. I understand that it is a fairly straight forward swap. I see, pretty often, engine and transmission combinations, but from my understanding my transmission should bolt right up to the 200tdi.

With the added hp of the 200tdi will the clutch need to be upgraded, and will the gearing hold up? I don't want to put the engine in only to have to buy a transmisson and clutch to install 6 months down the road. If not, any suggestions on what should go in?

I'm guessing that I have the lt77.

My bad if this has been covered already, I did search the forum.
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  #2  
Old April 4th, 2014, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defenderholty View Post
I have the 2.5n/a diesel. I am planning a 200tdi swap. I understand that it is a fairly straight forward swap. I see, pretty often, engine and transmission combinations, but from my understanding my transmission should bolt right up to the 200tdi.

With the added hp of the 200tdi will the clutch need to be upgraded, and will the gearing hold up? I don't want to put the engine in only to have to buy a transmisson and clutch to install 6 months down the road. If not, any suggestions on what should go in?

I'm guessing that I have the lt77.

My bad if this has been covered already, I did search the forum.
You should as general practice replace all the clutch related parts anytime you pull the transmission. What suffix lt77 do you have ? My brother daily drives a 1983 110 pickup we put a 200 in 5yrs ago. Trans has held up fine but his truck only had 60k on it when we imported it. While you may not need to do anything with your transmission you will need to change your transfer case to a 1.4 or 1.2 from the 1.6.
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  #3  
Old April 4th, 2014, 11:27 AM
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If in fact you have the original gearbox, you have the short belhousing LT77.
A better transmission choice for the 200TDI is the R380 Stumpy, but the LT77 will work and if in good shape, might last a long time or may fail if worn out under the additional torque and require replacing.
You'll need to drill and tap a few holes in the 200TDI flywheel housing to make the mate up copasetic.
If your main shaft is worn, like most are, then it is time for an R380 as the early suffix LT77s are not worth the money to rebuild.
I would not use MTF94 or ATF and stay with 90wt gear oil for this.

TDI clutch is prefered, but if the old one is in good shape it will fit.

If you have not given much thought to the t-case, you will probably want to swap the 1.6 LT230 out for something higher like a 1.4 or even 1.22 (Jacksonville is fairly flat).

Hope this helps.
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  #4  
Old April 4th, 2014, 11:30 AM
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I don't know what the suffix is. I don't even know for sure that it is the lt77. It is a 1985 lr90 with around 150k on the clock.
Come to think about it, the transmission does seem a little out of sync. I don't really have anything to compare it to though.

I hadn't considered the transfer case.
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  #5  
Old April 4th, 2014, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defenderholty View Post
I don't know what the suffix is. I don't even know for sure that it is the lt77. It is a 1985 lr90 with around 150k on the clock.
Come to think about it, the transmission does seem a little out of sync. I don't really have anything to compare it to though.

I hadn't considered the transfer case.
is reverse up and left by first ? If so you have an lt77 or an lt85

LT77 Development
The LT77 was introduced to the Landrover range in approx 1983 with the suffix 'D' box and was developed over the years to the suffix 'H' which was last used in 1994.
The 'D' and 'E' are very similar the only difference being the reverse gear was a little fatter in the E,
When they went from 'E' to 'F' larger layshaft bearings were used.
The 'G' was further improved by all the gear teeth including the pinion getting approx 20% thicker. Also a much wider pump was used to increase the lubrication and cope with the fact that some of the LT77's were now being supplied oil cooled, ie V8 NAS 90, 3.9 RR Classic and the 3.5 EFI Discos.
The 'H' (termed the LT 77S) was the same as the 'G' in terms of strength but used a different synchro set up called the'Double Synchro', In reality it didn't work much better.


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  #6  
Old April 4th, 2014, 11:53 AM
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Get the serial number. It will work but there are two concerns.

1) The earlier LT77 units are quite a bit weaker than the later and the TDI is a bit much for the earlier boxes. It will work, but the bearings will go eventually, depending on how you drive...

2) The gearing is different. http://www.red90.ca/rovers/gears.html#lt77 The box that came with the TDI was better geared for the extra power, but this may be a personal preference.

As above, plan to replace everything in the clutch system from the slave cylinder through to the clutch. All of it has a limited life and you only want to be in there once.

Also as above, check and post the transfer case serial number as that adds to the equation.
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  #7  
Old April 4th, 2014, 12:00 PM
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If you are interested in a used good lt77s let me know as I have one for sale.
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  #8  
Old April 4th, 2014, 12:01 PM
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1985 LR Ninety 200tdi
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I appreciate it. Based on where reverse is, I do have the lt77. I will be looking for the r380 with the conversion then, and the new t case. I figured the $ would start piling up with this conversion.

Come to think of it I may need to start saving some money for a good divorce lawyer while I am at it.


------ Follow up post added April 4th, 2014 12:10 PM ------

Also as above, check and post the transfer case serial number as that adds to the equation.[/QUOTE]

It'll be a little while before I can post serial numbers.

I am trying to get my ducks in a row to do the swap when I get home. I'm on deployment for a bit longer. Parts have been showing up at my house now for a few months.

If the r380 is the best way to go I will probably go ahead with it. I am looking to make my truck so that I can drive daily without much issue.

When I swap to the r380 will I have to modify the bulkhead or the tunnel?
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  #9  
Old April 4th, 2014, 12:19 PM
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You do not "need" to get an R380. They are not cheap. A good LT77, suffix F or later is perfectly fine and will last forever, treated well. I've driving 200000 miles trucks where the box still shifts like new. with the right fluids and someone that knows how to shift, they last, IME.

Getting the box that was with the engine is the best way to go and will be a much lower cost option.
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  #10  
Old April 4th, 2014, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Get the serial number. It will work but there are two concerns.

1) The earlier LT77 units are quite a bit weaker than the later and the TDI is a bit much for the earlier boxes. It will work, but the bearings will go eventually, depending on how you drive... .

My early LT77, despite having been recently rebuilt, lasted only about 10,000 miles behind my 200tdi before it failed. Stick with suffix G or newer, or R380.


If you haven't yet bought your 200tdi, then consider buying the transmission at the same time.
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  #11  
Old April 4th, 2014, 12:34 PM
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I just looked at a good condition r380, it is a bit pricey. If you guys say that the later lt77's will work fine then I may go that route. I just need to make sure that the combo that I buy has the newer lt77, I suppose. I don't have a problem shifting, and I don't abuse my truck. She is a bit old, and 'rode hard and put up wet' before I got er.

I do like the projects though, so I am in for a long build. I told the last guy that asked to buy it, that I would be burried it it one day.
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  #12  
Old April 4th, 2014, 12:43 PM
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Okay. before you get too confused.... There are different versions of both LT77 and R380 depending on the vehicle and engine. You can't just use "any" R380.....

If you want the 200TDi to be "drop in", you need a Defender 200TDI and a Defender, diesel LT77 or a "short bellhousing" R380. The "short bellhosuing" R380 can only be sourced new from Ashcroft. The other option is a 300TDI R380, but this will require moving the engine forward and modifying everything else to suit.
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  #13  
Old April 4th, 2014, 12:51 PM
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The engine transmission combo that I have been looking at is a defender (high mount turbo) 200tdi and I assume the proper bellhousing with transmission for the defender. I plan to ask questions before I order. I have read that the disco 200tdis and transmissions don't fit.

I am guessing (possibly incorrectly) that my bellhousing on my transmission that bolts up to my 2.5n/a could be used on the next transmission, should I absolutly need to use it.
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Old April 4th, 2014, 01:01 PM
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If you get the engine and gearbox from a 200TDI Defender, it will all bolt straight up. If you get everything else associated with the engine, there will be zero custom work.

You can also leave the existing gearbox or a short bellhousing R380 and it will all bolt up as well. Make sure that the "clutch housing" comes with the engine or else you will have other things to do.

Any other engine or gearbox combination will require a certain amount of custom work.
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  #15  
Old April 4th, 2014, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defenderholty View Post
I am guessing (possibly incorrectly) that my bellhousing on my transmission that bolts up to my 2.5n/a could be used on the next transmission, should I absolutly need to use it.
This statement is both correct and incorrect depending on the flavor of LT77.
Your belhousing will bolt to an R380, but will be the wrong length so it should not be used.

Your belhousing will bolt to an LT77, but the first motion shaft (primary pinion) will have to be swapped for a shorter one when going from say LT77 long TDI or V8 belhousing.
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  #16  
Old April 4th, 2014, 01:20 PM
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Hmmm. I think I am just going to make sure that I get the proper gear from the supplier. Make things a little easier for me and hopefully waste less time and money.

What is the problem with the tcase that I already have in my 2.5n/a setup when converting to the 200tdi? Weakness or ratio?
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  #17  
Old April 4th, 2014, 01:28 PM
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Ratio. The 200tdi can pull a higher gear than the 2.5na. Higher gear means less noise and better fuel economy. Probably more economical to swap the entire box than to change the ratio in the existing box.

Btw, all the 200tdi Defenders came with the upgraded LT77. The additional power of the 200tdi was the reason for the upgrade. So if you buy a 200tdi with the transmission attached, and it is the original transmission, you should be fine.
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  #18  
Old April 4th, 2014, 01:34 PM
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It depends what ratio you have. 200TDI trucks came with 1.4:1. You may have 1.4 or 1.6 in the truck currently.

The other thing is input gear spline wear. The input gear wear is an issue and you should check that yours is okay.
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  #19  
Old April 4th, 2014, 01:35 PM
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Good to know. Thanks for all of the info.

------ Follow up post added April 4th, 2014 01:45 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by solarguy View Post
If you are interested in a used good lt77s let me know as I have one for sale.
Thanks. I might take you up on it if you still have it when I get home.
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  #20  
Old May 21st, 2014, 02:49 PM
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Michael Fluent
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I am in a similar situation. I am an American living overseas who just bought a 1986 110. The truck currently has a 19J under the hood. I also have a 12J I will install before I ship the vehicle back home. I intend to buy at a minimum a new engine and perhaps a whole drive train before returning to the US. Three questions I guess: 1. What would you consider the best drive train to consider? Which is the best engine (300 tdi or 200)? and 3. Would it be better to stick with a low gear Xfer case mated to an overdrive unit (want it to be a driver and decent weekend warrior)?
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