2.2L Duratorq in a (NAS) Defender - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old February 23rd, 2017, 03:06 PM
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2.2L Duratorq in a (NAS) Defender

I'd eventually like to get a modern diesel in my Defender as opposed to the 300Tdi I've got in there now. I've been hoping for the Ford motor offered in Europe to make it's way into a US vehicle, which then makes it's way into an accident, a junk yard, and subsequently my garage.

I was hoping the Ford Transit van would bring it here, but in the North America market they've only offered the 3.2L (which I'm thinking is too big). If the 2.2 was offered it seems like it would be a nice diesel upgrade with a minimum of custom adapters required (as it's the same motor used in Eurospec Defenders) but maybe this will just not happen.

That said, the wiring/computer control would be a challenge for sure, but diesels are still less complicated than gasoline ECUs and I'd be able to get a fully 'modern' (-ish) Defender experience in the US.

Has anyone else been thinking about a project like this? Just curious.
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  #2  
Old February 23rd, 2017, 03:12 PM
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I thought ECR did a 3.2 in an NAS.
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Old February 23rd, 2017, 03:14 PM
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It would still be a bunch of work and be very expensive, assuming you can find someone that is capable of getting the ECU to run separate from the original vehicle.

Why not do the Cummins ISF2.8? Lots of power and torque. Brand new, warranty, and a factory supported standalone ECU. should not be any more work to fit than anything else. Price is not out yet, but I doubt it would be more than the option you are proposing.
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Old February 23rd, 2017, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
I thought ECR did a 3.2 in an NAS.
I know Bell Auto Services did one, but it sounds like they did an insane amount of custom work and cost sounded like it was beyond crazy.

DEFENDER2.NET - View topic - 3.2TDCI 200BHP into a Defender 90, It can be done!
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Old February 25th, 2017, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
It would still be a bunch of work and be very expensive, assuming you can find someone that is capable of getting the ECU to run separate from the original vehicle.

Why not do the Cummins ISF2.8? Lots of power and torque. Brand new, warranty, and a factory supported standalone ECU. should not be any more work to fit than anything else. Price is not out yet, but I doubt it would be more than the option you are proposing.
I didn't know about the Cummins ISF2.8. I imagine that's not a cheap drop-in though if it's new/crate/etc. Googled it. I do like the 50-state emissions legal part and it would be a solid power upgrade. Now I'd also need a new transmission and custom adapter too. Nice looking powerplant.

My 300tdi is tired and will need a rebuild before too long - maybe later this year / over the winter. I was considering installing the VNT kit and doing the rebuild, but thinking about options.

I can find 2.2 TDCis in Europe for $2500 (plus shipping) and was imagining that no custom adapter would be needed. Also, it's what is installed in Defenders in Europe so it would be kind-of "stock" ish... yah know, pure Landy, for whatever that's worth.
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Old February 25th, 2017, 11:51 PM
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Going with a 2.2 is still going to be big undertaking, it's not just an easy nut and bolt swap. Also not EPA certified. And it's not like it's a Land Rover engine- it's a ford.
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Old February 26th, 2017, 12:52 AM
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This has been on my mind. I have a 2013 2.2 Puma 110 here in Europe. Whilst not anemic, it is no barn burner. Of course, this is autobahn driving. How often do you cruise at 90MPH in the USA? Off road, there is decent grunt to get over most terrain.

Yes Bell (BAS) and Twisted have both done this, and if a Puma swap, the trail has been blazed, the hard parts done, the code written for ECU remap. So it is not a one-off proposition. Getting all the Puma functions to work (dash, ABS, traction control) was probably code intensive and a large development cost.

Ford sells a crate motor 3.2, either new or reconditioned. I assume this is EPA for at lest 49? Under $5K. Transit Gearbox has some beefed up guts to handle the extra power of what is known here as 3.2 Puma, so factor that in. If you are putting one in a non-Tdci Defender you would also need to sort all fuel lines and tank pump etc making sure they are compatable with the new engine.

Judicious parts gathering for eBay UK and UK breakers should make getting the right parts doable for US guys.

I have been meaning to email Pete Bell and ask what the loom he is rumoured to have goes for.

------ Follow up post added February 26th, 2017 12:55 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macker View Post
Going with a 2.2 is still going to be big undertaking, it's not just an easy nut and bolt swap. Also not EPA certified. And it's not like it's a Land Rover engine- it's a ford.
The Rover V8 is also not a Rover engine, to be technical.
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Old February 26th, 2017, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KGH View Post
The Rover V8 is also not a Rover engine, to be technical.
Yes I know, and I'm not one for sticking with oe just for the sake of it being original and "pure", hence why my truck has a Chevy engine.

Ive thought a lot about a 3.2. For me that would be a much more worthwhile swap, given that it actually produces good power and could even be considered an upgrade over a v8 in some ways. I just feel more inclined to go with something like the ISF 2.8 based on the fact that I don't feel it would be much more work than swapping to say a 2.2, and I see a lot more benefits with the Cummins.
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Old February 26th, 2017, 09:28 AM
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The 3.2 conversion fell out of favor quickly in Europe and they were working with tdci spec Defenders. Too much modification was needed to fit the bigger motor. Most of the tuning shops are now installing Corvette engines.

The 300tdi is reliable and should add value to your Defender in the US--not the expert on that, but it would be my guess. No point switching in my opinion and certainly not on an NAS truck to a tdci engine.
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Old February 26th, 2017, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macker View Post
Going with a 2.2 is still going to be big undertaking, it's not just an easy nut and bolt swap. Also not EPA certified. And it's not like it's a Land Rover engine- it's a ford.
The EPA thing is why I haven't seriously considered it yet. I was hoping Ford would bring the motor here in something but hasn't yet. Maybe the new Bronco....

------ Follow up post added February 26th, 2017 08:32 AM ------

Has any pricing been announced for the Cummins 2.8 crate motor?
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Old February 26th, 2017, 01:40 PM
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They sell new and used Ford Transit 350 bans with the 3.2 diesel in California.

It is the same motor.

Specs
3.2L Power Stroke Specs & Info

Ford part number
Buy 2015 Ford Transit-350 HD Parts | FordParts.com

Reman
2015 Ford Transit-350 HD Engine Complete Assembly | FordParts.com

Just for fun I picked an LA dealer, Sunrise of North Hollywood, and added to cart. With core charge - $7,603.72

Seeing as I have a complete Puma donor, this may make sense. Probably make more sense to have my ECU updated for 120HP or so.
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Old February 27th, 2017, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KGH View Post
They sell new and used Ford Transit 350 bans with the 3.2 diesel in California.

It is the same motor.

Specs
3.2L Power Stroke Specs & Info

Ford part number
Buy 2015 Ford Transit-350 HD Parts | FordParts.com

Reman
2015 Ford Transit-350 HD Engine Complete Assembly | FordParts.com

Just for fun I picked an LA dealer, Sunrise of North Hollywood, and added to cart. With core charge - $7,603.72

Seeing as I have a complete Puma donor, this may make sense. Probably make more sense to have my ECU updated for 120HP or so.

If you are answering my question I think we crossed lines here, I was referring to the cost of the ISF2.8 power-up crate motor. I don't think it's available yet, but I was wondering if any pricing had been released. I didn't see any online.
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Old February 27th, 2017, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaherring View Post
If you are answering my question I think we crossed lines here, I was referring to the cost of the ISF2.8 power-up crate motor. I don't think it's available yet, but I was wondering if any pricing had been released. I didn't see any online.
Price hasn't been announced yet.
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Old February 27th, 2017, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Macker View Post
Price hasn't been announced yet.
The more I think about it the more appealing it sounds, but the price tag could squash that.
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Old February 27th, 2017, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaherring View Post
The more I think about it the more appealing it sounds, but the price tag could squash that.
With all due respect, how expensive were you thinking a 2.2 conversion would be?
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Old February 27th, 2017, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaherring View Post
The more I think about it the more appealing it sounds, but the price tag could squash that.
More power and torque= happiness. Plus I suspect it will be smoother and quieter than rover tdi's. You can recoup a good amount from the 300tdi.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 03:34 AM
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Bell Auto Service

I chatted with Pete at Bell this morning, they are not doing much with the 3.2 Puma/Duratorque these days.

For those Puma 2.4/2.2 minded guys, BAS remote remap of 2.2 Puma nets 150BHP and 295 FtLbs of torque. Add in an Allisport intercooler, and you can get 170BHP and 332 FtLbs.

Upon consideration, IMHO it would take a very specific set of circumstances to justify a full LR Puma swap to an older Defender. That said, the Ford Transit may be a suitable donor.

Here's one from a quick interwebs search.

http://www.autobidmaster.com/carfind...SUN_VALLEY_CA/
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Old February 28th, 2017, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
With all due respect, how expensive were you thinking a 2.2 conversion would be?
I have found donor 2.2s for under $3000, and that would not require custom mechanical adapters as that legwork has already been done by LR.

------ Follow up post added February 28th, 2017 11:07 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by KGH View Post
I chatted with Pete at Bell this morning, they are not doing much with the 3.2 Puma/Duratorque these days.

For those Puma 2.4/2.2 minded guys, BAS remote remap of 2.2 Puma nets 150BHP and 295 FtLbs of torque. Add in an Allisport intercooler, and you can get 170BHP and 332 FtLbs.

Upon consideration, IMHO it would take a very specific set of circumstances to justify a full LR Puma swap to an older Defender. That said, the Ford Transit may be a suitable donor.

Here's one from a quick interwebs search.

1FTSW3XV7FKB29537 | 2015 white Ford Transit T- on Sale in Sun Valley, CA | Lot 42751786
I was looking for something like that, but didn't want the big motor. If there was a NA spec 2.2/2.4 I'd be looking for a salvage exactly like you link above.
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