1st upgrade: lockers or underdrive - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


View Poll Results: Best 1st upgrade : Underdrive or Lockers?
Underdrive 2 6.45%
Lockers 29 93.55%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old March 22nd, 2011, 02:51 AM
sad_story's Avatar
sad_story
Status: Offline
andre
95' D90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 76
1st upgrade: lockers or underdrive

looking to make my 1st significant upgrade to my 5speed 95 D90. Trying to understand/figure out where i would benefit most and why, and therefore upgrade first; Underdrive or F/R Lockers (if you are in the locker camp, front and rear or only rear)?

the floor is yours ...
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old March 22nd, 2011, 03:30 AM
TS888's Avatar
TS888
Status: Offline
Tony Sims
1984 110
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: White Salmon, WA
Posts: 460
For reference, what is your experience level in off road driving? If you are relatively new to off roading, then the best thing to invest in first is training, like a Bill Burke class. A Land Rover is a very capable truck straight out of the box, and learning to use all that capability will help you decide what changes you may want to make.

That said, have you got some form of winch, and a full set of recovery gear (tree strap, snatch block, shackles, etc.)? A hand winch is a good investment for occasional off roading (Tirfor or More Power Puller), and useful even if you decide to go for a truck mounted winch later. Before you invest in gear that can get you further from pavement, you should be prepared to get back, and be experienced in self-recovery.

If you are experienced, please don't be offended by my prior suggestions. Then I'd say lockers before underdrive. The greater torque of the underdrive with open axles will mean a lot of spinning wheels. As lockers go, rear first, then front if you aren't doing both in one go.
__________________
Quote:
[appropriated from Ren Ching] Most faults can usually be traced to the badge on the grill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris snell
This is straight out of the Manual for Build Builders.
Tony
1984 110 "Smokey" (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old March 22nd, 2011, 03:42 AM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,232
Registry
Neither would be anywhere near a first upgrade.

This is sort of in the class "if you have to ask, you don't need them".
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old March 22nd, 2011, 04:04 AM
diesel_jim's Avatar
diesel_jim
Status: Offline
Jamie Austin
1992 110 Td5 CSW & 1989 MB G-Wagen
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wiltshire, UK
Posts: 1,449
I'd vote for some dcent tyres and axle protection.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old March 22nd, 2011, 07:53 AM
Cred's Avatar
Cred
Status: Offline
Clarence
1994 D90 #1057
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 733
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by diesel_jim
I'd vote for some dcent tyres and axle protection.
Tires are great way to start. Also skid plates, upgraded axle shafts, cvs, and drag links. I'd do those items way before lockers or an underdrive.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old March 22nd, 2011, 07:57 AM
EWR's Avatar
EWR
Status: Offline
Carey
1954 CJ-3B
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 558
Quote:
Originally Posted by diesel_jim View Post
I'd vote for some dcent tyres and axle protection.
This is very sound advice. One of the best upgrades is seat time. I have watched first hand guys that have thrown large amounts of cash into lockers, gears and amazing suspensions only to be made to look like a complete idiot as they get hung up on an obstacle that a skilled driver in a stock truck walked right through.

It's 95% driver input.
__________________
What tree?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old March 22nd, 2011, 12:01 PM
Roverchef's Avatar
Roverchef
Status: Offline
Jake K.
95 D90 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Deep in the Dirty South
Posts: 341
Buy it all...lockers,tires,gears,protection,winch,bumpers ! Then go buy some booze and a couple pairs of undy's and learn to drive it! Wheel it like it's your kid's car.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old March 22nd, 2011, 12:21 PM
o2batsea's Avatar
o2batsea
Status: Offline
Bill Adams
66 109 sw 94 lwb
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: kensington md
Posts: 6,501
Registry
Winch is cheaper, easier to install and will also get you out of trouble.
__________________
Bill Adams

1966 109 5 door wagon 300Tdi "spermaceti fueled"
1994 RRC LeWiB "ruining the air behind me"
1968 2A 88

All my troubles are Rover
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old March 22nd, 2011, 01:55 PM
EWR's Avatar
EWR
Status: Offline
Carey
1954 CJ-3B
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 558
Or, just a buy a stock Rubicon edition Jeep Wrangler and you'll be set, and have great aftermarket support, a reliable vehicle and about 15k less into it.
__________________
What tree?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old March 22nd, 2011, 03:33 PM
rijosho's Avatar
rijosho
Status: Offline
Joshua
1995 Black ST - Rhinolined edition
Research Assistant/Eagle Eyes
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 16,557
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
Winch is cheaper, easier to install and will also get you out of trouble.
Man, when I saw you replied in here I was fully expecting to see you suggest a Ford or Chevy block over the stock engine as the first upgrade.
__________________
Quote:
I am talking purely from an aesthetics standpoint.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old March 22nd, 2011, 04:18 PM
Cube II's Avatar
Cube II
Status: Offline
Michele
1997 D90
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Italy
Posts: 900
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by sad_story View Post
looking to make my 1st significant upgrade to my 5speed 95 D90
At the beginning I thought this poll was a joke...

I'd ask "how long have you been driving your D90?"


Lockers and underdrive have different purposes, hence my

Lockers.

Assuming, of course, you already have mud tires, a winch, and other upgrades as suggested by other fellow forumeers...
__________________
Michele
D90 VNTdi
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
+109" IIA ex-military

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Sketches and doodles:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[O]===[O]
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old March 22nd, 2011, 07:11 PM
rover4x4's Avatar
rover4x4
Status: Offline
Phillip
1995 SW #487/500
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Old North State
Posts: 7,523
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by EWR View Post
Or, just a buy a stock Rubicon edition Jeep Wrangler and you'll be set, and have great aftermarket support, a reliable vehicle and about 15k less into it.



What he said

------ Follow up post added March 22nd, 2011 07:12 PM ------

Troll
__________________
Poor gas mileage gets you to the best places on earth
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old March 22nd, 2011, 08:47 PM
Antichrist's Avatar
Antichrist
Status: Offline
Tom Rowe
Defender/Disco/Series/MoD
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Posts: 1,280
Winch. Lockers and tires will let you get more stuck, just like 4WD does.
Then tires.
Or tires then winch.
Why are you considering an underdrive?
__________________
Tom Rowe
Atlanta, GA

Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck
in places even more inaccessible.

62 88 Regular
67 109 6cyl NADA x2
74 Lightweight - The Antichrist
95 DI 5-speed
95 D90 5-speed
97 D1 Automatic
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old March 22nd, 2011, 09:22 PM
woldd90's Avatar
woldd90
Status: Offline
Scott
1997 D90 ST #1444
Site Team
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Georgia
Posts: 5,329
I too, want an under-drive... They are spectacular and I will have one on my 100".
__________________
Scott

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old March 22nd, 2011, 10:19 PM
cdb
Status: Offline
Clark Bowen
1969 Series 2a/OM617 Bugeye 88"
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Oregon, USA
Posts: 775
I have both lockers and an underdrive on my D90.
Frankly, I avoid using my lockers as much as possible to improve my driving skills. I used to put them in any time I came to an obstacle and it did make it easier but you don't "need them". Learn without them first.
I also have the Ashcroft Underdrive and especially for hard surfaces (rockcrawling) I really just use it for coming down steep slopes or ledges -- very, very slowly.
I've found that with the Underdrive in, and in low range I'm using 3rd gear to climb. That's virtually the same as low box, first and no Underdrive. So why bother paying the money for the underdrive and installing the 26 tooth t-case gearset or finding a 1:4 t-case.
While I'm at it - don't retrofit an a/c system if you don't have one already. Near useless in a soft top.
I think the above advice is excellent - even the Rubicon. My son has one after getting frustrated with Range Rovers. Quality is so so and you need aftermarket suspension components but at least the damn a/c works.

------ Follow up post added March 22nd, 2011 07:31 PM ------

Just noticed that you live in Seattle.
Join the Pacific Coast Rover Club www.pcrc.net to meet fellow rover nuts. They are very active in Seattle and Portland and a good group to boot.
Also, I cannot see any advantage to an underdrive where you live unless you are going to drive to the SouthWest for rocks.
A good set of mud terrains would be my first order of business, followed by a winch - you have lots of trees to strap onto. Oh yes, get a tree strap and some 3/4" D rings (clevis) from a logging store. Cheaper usually.
Of course, you have to buy a winch bumper for the winch. Doug Shipman may have some left: 503-252-5566 or Rockware www.rockware.net.
Checkout Lamorna Garage (Gord'n Parrot) and Briggs Automotive for local Land Rover shops.
__________________
2011 RR HSE -
1970 LR Series 2A Bugeye BenzOver
2001 GMC 2500 4wd
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old March 23rd, 2011, 02:06 AM
sad_story's Avatar
sad_story
Status: Offline
andre
95' D90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 76
Should have made it clearer what i already had, i guess i should have clarified. But thank you allThanks so far for the responses

this is how i bought this rig from Keith @ Copley (thanks K) and what the prior owner had done with it @ ECR

Work @ ECR link
- Anodized Chasis
- SS line/brake/fuel
- SS Rox Exhaust
- ECR 4.6L, ECU/Performance Manifolds
- Bilstein Shocks
- ROX Tie Rods guard / HD drag link
- F/R Diff Guards
- Rox Fuel Tank Skid Plate
- block heater and A/C
- Tuffy Center Console
- Drivers ROX kick Panel
- Door hinge upgrades
- heated seats
- LED tail lights
- SG front bumper w
- Warn Winch
- Hella 4000s
- Badger Seat covers
- ROX seat rails

@ TS88
Bill Burke Class - Done (awesome two days (thanks B.Burke and attendees)

@ TS88
Full Recovery Gear - Check (thanks Thor @ Vicking)

@ TS88
Hand Winch - Check using the Hi-Lift ala bill burke

Rock Sliders - Check (Matt @ Rockware)

Quick Disconnects - Check(thanks Gord'n @ Lamorna)

@ TS88 (Tony), diesel_jim, Cred, EWR Carey, 02batsea Bill), JSBriggs(Jeff)
pretty much already came with the things mentioned

@cdb
thanks for the insights,yes already joined pcrc last week (i just moved to the area)


Thank you all very much for the information and advice ... Yes I am a relative novice, just moved to a city where owning a D90 is worth it. I think i bought one that seems pretty loaded with the basic and then some (though with gas prices i sometimes wonder about the TDi conversion... yes i understand and appreciate the advice about learning to drive what i have before i upgrade, point taken. I get out to the woods about every two weeks to practice and learn, and have tried to augment that by attending Bill Burkes class and hopefully get out with the local meetup.com groups as well as the PCRC guys.

In conjunction with your answers and BBurkes advice, the next step will be rear lockers before front lockers before (if at all) underdrive. As for timing, plans are to get a lot more driving in this summer fall, then come winter see if my skills and area require me to move on... its just i wanted to know what my upgrade path should be and what i should keep an eye out in case there are any "deals" to be found or keep a look out for...
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old March 23rd, 2011, 09:42 AM
EWR's Avatar
EWR
Status: Offline
Carey
1954 CJ-3B
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 558
Is this a coniston green SW by any chance?
__________________
What tree?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old March 23rd, 2011, 09:53 AM
KevinNY's Avatar
KevinNY
Status: Offline
Kevin Buckley
1973 coiler
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Guilderland,NY
Posts: 1,460
Forget the idea of a tdi conversion, just put it out of your mind. You already have a sweet upgraded motor and a diesel conversion NEVER pays itself off in mileage savings.
__________________
'73 SeriesIII coiler,"The Goat", Daihatsu 2.8TD,Santana,Ashcroft,ARB's,etc., now SOLD
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old March 23rd, 2011, 07:18 PM
sad_story's Avatar
sad_story
Status: Offline
andre
95' D90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by EWR View Post
Is this a coniston green SW by any chance?

arles blue will post photos when i get home

------ Follow up post added March 23rd, 2011 04:20 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNY View Post
Forget the idea of a tdi conversion, just put it out of your mind. You already have a sweet upgraded motor and a diesel conversion NEVER pays itself off in mileage savings.
I have been hearing that a lot ... but so limited on 150-170 range :-( ...
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old March 23rd, 2011, 07:29 PM
cwilder's Avatar
cwilder
Status: Offline
Chad
2012 110 Black
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 739
Registry
Very nice truck! Congrats!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
'97 D90 SW LE - Supercharged & Lockers Classic Rover For Sale - Vehicles 18 February 26th, 2006 12:32 PM
Suspension upgrade Rover- Girl Misc. Chit-Chat 41 September 12th, 2005 02:07 PM
OME upgrade advice kolvedic Defender Technical Discussions 11 August 16th, 2005 11:08 PM
Turbo/Supercharger upgrade advise needed babushka99 Defender Technical Discussions 2 October 16th, 2004 08:26 PM
Upgrade pushed back chrisvonc Misc. Chit-Chat 0 May 15th, 2004 11:23 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:21 AM.


Copyright