19j 2.5td 90 - Loss of Power at 50+mph - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old April 16th, 2016, 03:22 PM
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19j 2.5td 90 - Loss of Power at 50+mph

I have an 88 NINETY (don't know whether to refer to this as a Defender or not?) and I have a problem when driving at 50 plus. It dies after 20 sec or so at 50+ and falters until it drops to about 40, recovers all on its own, and is happy to maintain sub 50 without incident. Ticks over fine, doesn't ,miss a beat other than this. No smoking or overheating.

Here is what I've done so far..
I've changed the fuel filter twice, changed the fuel pump, blown the fuel lines, tried removing the fuel cap. All to no avail. However, I tried the following which only makes this more weird. I drove it in 3rd gear at 35mph for some distance, up some steep hills too - I'm sure the revs it was doing would have equated to a lot more than the 50/55 in top where I have the problem - and it would not do it.
I took the air filter top off and low and behold, it has no air filter in (I've just bought this so not me honest!). I don't have one so just tried it but same prob. Hoses look ok, nothing collapsed air side. I'm really at a loss now, clearly able to get enough fuel, starts instantly, no smoke - can't think of anything speed related, its def engine faltering not prop/handbrake related and recovers itself when speed drops and happily drives at 60+ for maybe half a mile before it does it.

Any help much appreciated
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  #2  
Old April 16th, 2016, 05:03 PM
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While not the same issue on my 19J...it drove like crap until I replaced the boost diaphragm that is on the injector pump...it has a hose that goes from the turbo right to it...the diaphragm tears and then you loose the extra fuel needed when the boost rises at the turbo...
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  #3  
Old April 16th, 2016, 06:14 PM
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Thanks - I'll have a look for that tomorrow, sounds feasible especially as I've just got it and don't know what it should feel like when operating correctly - Could well be lack of turbo
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Old April 16th, 2016, 08:18 PM
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The diaphragm is not hard to replace.

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=33911

You can buy it here:

http://www.delphipartsstore.co.uk/fu...iaphragm_3.htm
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  #5  
Old April 17th, 2016, 03:53 AM
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Thanks - I've ordered from the Delphi Store, not going to bother even looking at mine I'll just replace it. Excellent walk through posted there, hopefully its not as fiddly as it looks - but sounds bang on the money as to a reason for this. I'll report back of course...
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  #6  
Old April 17th, 2016, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhandy View Post
I have an 88 NINETY (don't know whether to refer to this as a Defender or not?)
Technically it is not a Defender, but to be completely correct you can always call it a "Defender style vehicle".

Quote:
Originally Posted by lhandy View Post
I have a problem when driving at 50 plus. It dies after 20 sec or so at 50+ and falters until it drops to about 40, recovers all on its own, and is happy to maintain sub 50 without incident. Ticks over fine, doesn't ,miss a beat other than this. No smoking or overheating.... changed the fuel filter twice, changed the fuel pump, blown the fuel lines, tried removing the fuel cap. All to no avail. However, I tried the following which only makes this more weird. I drove it in 3rd gear at 35mph for some distance, up some steep hills too - I'm sure the revs it was doing would have equated to a lot more than the 50/55 in top where I have the problem - and it would not do it.
I took the air filter top off and low and behold, it has no air filter in (I've just bought this so not me honest!). I don't have one so just tried it but same prob. Hoses look ok, nothing collapsed air side. I'm really at a loss now, clearly able to get enough fuel, starts instantly, no smoke - can't think of anything speed related, its def engine faltering not prop/handbrake related and recovers itself when speed drops and happily drives at 60+ for maybe half a mile before it does it.

Any help much appreciated
It is hard to diagnose this problem from afar, but my best theory is that something is robbing the engine of fuel when you are high at RPMs under max load.
It was smart to conduct the 35MPH 3rd gear test, but the engine was not under as much load as when you were driving, or attempting to at speeds over 60 MPH.
Since there was no smoke, I think you can rule out an injector, pump timing and so on.

Try disconnecting the air hose running to the turbo to be 100% sure it is not collapsing this is no worse than running with no air filter.
You could also have some schmekley (foreign matter) in your fuel tank that periodically blocks the fuel pickup under max draw, but this should have happened during the 35 MPH 3rd gear test.
And the last and best advice is to conduct the same highway test using a can of fresh fuel as a fuel source delivered by a 12V pump.
This will bypass your fuel system altogether.
The small sandwich filter recirculates the return line back to the filter... this bad design will fill the fuel feeding the engine with air when you have the slightest of air leaks.

The other option if you don't want to run from an external tank of fuel is to change your fuel system to have the following items in this order: sedimenter (close to the fuel tank), 12V fuel pump, engine fuel pump, spin on filter (replacing the sandwich filter), return line joining with the injector spill over goes straight back to the fuel tank.
This is similar to the TDI fuel routing, but with a 12V pump to provide a self priming fuel system.
The other major benefit is that any air leaks no matter how small will be exposed by the 12V fuel pump as long as they are on the output side of the 12V pump.

Hope this helps.
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  #7  
Old April 18th, 2016, 03:31 PM
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Thanks - I'm trying unsuccessfully to run through the logic of the issue, I can't get to grips with how it can run normally for a while (indicating everything working fine at that point) and then start failing at pretty much the same distance all the time, its quite consistent. After the faltering, if I let it settle back to 45 and start driving "fast" it will get up to speed and do it again. If the boost diaphragm was gone (part on its way to me) would it not be consistent in its affects/symptoms. Also, I took the pipe off the turbo that goes to the boost diaphragm and tried sucking and blowing it but it seemed to maintain pressure/vacuum - If it was holed would it still do this I wonder?

As for the 35mph test, I tried the same run I do in top, but in 4th to 55 - It did do the faltering again, but even though higher revs it was same physical distance - presumably as said, due to less effort on the engine.

I like the idea of bypassing the fuel line, but starting to get beyond my capabilities. Maybe strapping on a 5 litre container if it comes to it?
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  #8  
Old April 18th, 2016, 03:47 PM
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Regardless of if it is or not, the Diaphragm is cheap (Esp if your in the UK) and no matter what they do fail esp if it had never been changed (you can tell by seeing if there is still a thin cable seal on one of the bolts)...it will be one less thing that it could be...I do have an intercooler on mine and when I got it one of the lower pipes was loose / off and the pig had zero power...lastly I checked all of the banjo bolts at the fuel filter as 2 of mine were loose and sucking in air as someone mentioned prior...but that gave me more of a morning start up issue then anything else...Good Luck Adam...
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  #9  
Old April 18th, 2016, 03:57 PM
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Yes Adam, it has the wire tag attached and part on the way - Hopefully it makes a difference. Thanks for your input
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Old April 18th, 2016, 04:39 PM
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I hope so...I was surprised at how drive-able the truck was once it was replaced...I live in an area with a lot of hills and I am on top of a big one and I could barely get up them in very low gear...now no issue...
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Rovers Run on Diesel

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  #11  
Old April 20th, 2016, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icnsltmfg View Post
While not the same issue on my 19J...it drove like crap until I replaced the boost diaphragm that is on the injector pump...it has a hose that goes from the turbo right to it...the diaphragm tears and then you loose the extra fuel needed when the boost rises at the turbo...

ICNSLTMFG - SPOT ON THAT MAN!

Turned out to be the boost diaphragm fitted to the side of the fuel injection pump. Cost £15.83 incl delivery/vat from Atlantic Diesels. Part number 7243-006 as per details kindly posted by THE DRO & MONLAND.

Even the tiny hole mine had in it, visible only by stretching it about when removed, had quite a dramatic effect.

This was my last resort before A - Taking it to a garage or B - Buying it a gallon of petrol and a box of matches.

Thanks for all the suggestions/help all
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  #12  
Old April 20th, 2016, 06:44 PM
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So glad that worked....This site is filled with soooo much knowledge and I only found out about the issue from a few bright guys on this site...just passing it on! Adam

Quote:
Originally Posted by lhandy View Post
ICNSLTMFG - SPOT ON THAT MAN!

Turned out to be the boost diaphragm fitted to the side of the fuel injection pump. Cost £15.83 incl delivery/vat from Atlantic Diesels. Part number 7243-006 as per details kindly posted by THE DRO & MONLAND.

Even the tiny hole mine had in it, visible only by stretching it about when removed, had quite a dramatic effect.

This was my last resort before A - Taking it to a garage or B - Buying it a gallon of petrol and a box of matches.

Thanks for all the suggestions/help all
__________________
America Runs on Dunkin'
Rovers Run on Diesel

2017 Range Rover L405 HSE TD6
2008 Range Rover HSE L322/MkIII - Gone but not forgotten
1988 D90 County RHD 2.5TD
2015 Porsche Cayenne TD
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  #13  
Old April 20th, 2016, 06:56 PM
The Dro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhandy View Post

ICNSLTMFG - SPOT ON THAT MAN!

Turned out to be the boost diaphragm fitted to the side of the fuel injection pump. Cost £15.83 incl delivery/vat from Atlantic Diesels. Part number 7243-006 as per details kindly posted by THE DRO & MONLAND.

Even the tiny hole mine had in it, visible only by stretching it about when removed, had quite a dramatic effect.

This was my last resort before A - Taking it to a garage or B - Buying it a gallon of petrol and a box of matches.

Thanks for all the suggestions/help all
That's what I like to read... very good indeed.
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  #14  
Old April 20th, 2016, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by The Dro View Post
That's what I like to read... very good indeed.
That's what I like to hear you reading about, almost as good!
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #15  
Old April 20th, 2016, 09:49 PM
The Dro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post

That's what I like to hear you reading about, almost as good!
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