19J 2.5 TD Naysayers Behold there is still life - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old November 1st, 2014, 09:53 AM
richord
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Richard Ordowich
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19J 2.5 TD Naysayers Behold there is still life

I became increasingly concerned that my 19J engine was ready for the graveyard after reading some of the warnings on the various websites. I began to investigate a complete transplant to a 200TDI.

But I kept reading and discovered that some folks were able to get more life out of their 19J's with some TLC and troubleshooting.

My symptoms were the common ones:

Lack of power and speed
Heavy Breathing
Oil leaks


I started by changing the timing belt and to be on the safe side the water pump. Since the engine was a "heavy breather" I put in an oil/air separator. I installed a turbo boost gauge to monitor how the turbo performed in different driving conditions. I tried to patch over the numerous oil leaks with JB Weld. I tested the compression on the engine and it looked great.

The oil/air separator helped keep the air filter cleaner which improved performance a bit and somewhat reduced oil spills on my driveway.

The boost gauge showed that in gears 2-5 the boost would only get up to about 3-5 and drop off. So at the suggestion of some folks I replaced the boost diagram. This had a dramatic change in performance. The boost gauge now goes up to over 10 in all gears and I can now get up to 65 MPH where before it was a strain to get up to 55.

The engine oil leaks moved around. Patch one area and oil would leak somewhere else. There last locations were the wading holes in the timing cover and the clutch housing. I put small catch cans on those even though I realize this is not a fix since it appears the front and rear oil seals maybe gone. But I am not the next BP oil spill.

My experience is that there are still ways to get some life out of the 19J 2.5 TD. At least in my case it was.

In the end I had to decide how to go about addressing my specific situation and engine but the help on this site was an enormous help and I would like to thank all those folks.
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  #2  
Old November 1st, 2014, 10:05 AM
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Major congrats. I feel throwing in a potentially tired 200/300 and crossing fingers it performs well makes little sense if you have a decent running lump. As this forum reveals there are problems that must be worked out no matter what you're running.

Clay
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  #3  
Old November 1st, 2014, 10:12 AM
the rover shop
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shayne young
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They are just notorious for breaking cranks, blowing head gaskets or cracking heads... I think it stemmed from just bolting a turbo on a naturally aspirated designed engine..
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Old November 1st, 2014, 10:27 AM
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Robert Davis
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Nice progress...

What oil/air separator did you use?
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Old November 1st, 2014, 11:59 AM
richord
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Richard Ordowich
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Robert, this is the oil/air separator I used: Moroso 85474 Universal Air/Oil Separator. Got it on Amazon.

There are cheaper units but this one is nicely made, sturdy and does the job.
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  #6  
Old December 10th, 2014, 09:49 AM
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Alan Carlson
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I have a standard 2.5 N/A motor. Are there any other ways to improve performance?
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  #7  
Old December 10th, 2014, 10:01 AM
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[QUOTE=WildRover;588619]I have a standard 2.5 N/A motor. Are there any other ways to improve performance?[/QUOTE

Well you may already know this given it is repeated daily on this forum but if you are able to get to highway speeds of 60 then you are roughly at peak performance. How quickly you get to 60 may be a function of the gearing in your transfer case. I think the 2.5na came with 1.6's so throwing a 1.22 or 1.4 in place will mask some of the disappointment you may be experiencing and help keep the noise down. But with that said, I wonder if there was a reason Rover mated the 2.5na to the 1.6. Was it because a 1.2 or 1.4 was likely to lead to other premature problems? I don't know but it seems like when one side of an equation is tinkered with the other side should be thoroughly considered. I just learned or was reminded yesterday that the early LT77's don't perform well behind a 200/300tdi which provide more power to the train. Maybe the same is true if one throws a 1.22 or 1.4 behind an early suffix 77 as well. Others here can probably speak from experience and hopefully they'll chime in if I'm dead wrong.

Clay
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  #8  
Old December 10th, 2014, 10:37 AM
WildRover
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Alan Carlson
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Thanks for the help! I can reach 60 on the highway and get there fairly quick so assume I'm about peaked out! I was asking because I'm thinking getting a second set of wheels and wonder if the performance would significantly decrease with a wider tire.
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  #9  
Old December 10th, 2014, 10:51 AM
tpond
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Mine ran great... right up to the point the rod went through the block. My advice is enjoy it while it lasts, but start saving for the upgrade.
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  #10  
Old December 10th, 2014, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpond View Post
Mine ran great... right up to the point the rod went through the block. My advice is enjoy it while it lasts, but start saving for the upgrade.
Toby, sorry to hear about the rod. How many miles had you logged and what was your maintenance regime?
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  #11  
Old December 10th, 2014, 11:24 AM
tpond
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Not too many miles, maybe 80,000. It was well taken care of, kept the oil changed, valves adjusted etc...
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  #12  
Old December 10th, 2014, 11:33 AM
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Geez, not good. Did you start to get any tough to identify tapping or mild knocks when engine was under load prior to the big event? Did you run any additives to the fuel on a regular basis? I've read recently even ATF offers an improvement over the low-sulfur options we have to choose from these days.
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Old December 10th, 2014, 11:50 AM
tpond
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Yes, it did begin to knock/tap. I pulled the injectors to have them tested (they tested good), turns out one of the sealing washers for one injector was deformed, so once I re-installed the injectors everything sealed up great, and the knock went away completely. It ran perfect, so I took it on a road trip... never ran better...about 200 miles into the trip it started to knock again slightly on a big hill, about a half mile latter she let loose.



I did run Stanadyne regularly.
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  #14  
Old December 10th, 2014, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpond View Post
Mine ran great... right up to the point the rod went through the block. My advice is enjoy it while it lasts, but start saving for the upgrade.
Yeah I agree with this, you have to figure the engine is at least 25 years old and its a very early TD setup. Not to say you won't run it for another 10 years (hard saying not knowing) but I wouldn't put more than maintenance dollars into it.

Cool post though, if you are getting 10#s of boost you are doing something right!
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  #15  
Old December 10th, 2014, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
they are just notorious for breaking cranks, blowing head gaskets or cracking heads... I think it stemmed from just bolting a turbo on a naturally aspirated designed engine..

+100
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  #16  
Old December 10th, 2014, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpond View Post
Yes, it did begin to knock/tap. I pulled the injectors to have them tested (they tested good), turns out one of the sealing washers for one injector was deformed, so once I re-installed the injectors everything sealed up great, and the knock went away completely. It ran perfect, so I took it on a road trip... never ran better...about 200 miles into the trip it started to knock again slightly on a big hill, about a half mile latter she let loose.



I did run Stanadyne regularly.
Damn, that sucks. These engines I guess are just not meant to travel at high RPM's, especially after 25-30 years. I'll certainly think twice before pushing mine down the road at a top speed of 64.5 for any lengthy period of time. I'll also be seriously considering an upgrade to my AAA membership. I think for a few more bucks I can upgrade my status and get one 200 mile tow per year.
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  #17  
Old December 10th, 2014, 04:30 PM
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Robert Davis
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When the first 19J's were out, shops in UK were adding intercoolers and manual boost controllers.
Then they started tweeking the fueling adjustments and IP mods to get better performance.

This was worthwhile in the old days, before the TDI came out.
Then it became a moot point.
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