110 Brakes really this bad?! - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old March 8th, 2008, 11:20 PM
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110 Brakes really this bad?!

Hey guys can someone tell me if you really have to almost stand on the brakes to get a NAS 110 to stop? I just had my truck serviced, brakes adjusted and it still feels like there is a huge amount of travel and you have to apply alot of pressure to stop the truck. My daily driver until a few weeks ago is a 1961 109 so Im used to primative braking and steering but this seems excessive. The mechanic tells my this is normal but it just doesnt make sense that my 50 year old Series is easier to stop than this thing.
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  #2  
Old March 8th, 2008, 11:25 PM
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110 Brakes

No, something is wrong. My 110 brakes like a sports car. No kidding. I'd find out what they did when they "seviced" it.
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  #3  
Old March 8th, 2008, 11:48 PM
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Thanks John. Is there a lot of travel before the brakes engage or is it short throw?
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  #4  
Old March 9th, 2008, 12:07 AM
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If there is a lot of travel there is a problem. I've just adjusted the rear drums, replaced the master, and bleed all the old fluid out of the system, the peddle is full on with in a couple of inches now.
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Old March 9th, 2008, 12:14 AM
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Ok something is wrong then. The brakes were bleed twice. Still lots of travel. Probably 4 inches before they start to engage. I need to take it back in Monday. My mechanic told me the 110s have alot more travel than the 90s and they felt normal to him. Maybe the master cylinder? They dont feel power assisted in anyway.
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  #6  
Old March 9th, 2008, 12:46 AM
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My wife reports that our 110 has something amiss with the brakes, even though it just got new rotors, pads, shoes, rear wheel cylinders, some misc parts, and new fluid. Since there isnt much left to replace, and since the lines don't have much that can go wrong with them, I'm going to investigate the master cylinder and servo when I get home. The travel is a bit much, and the feel is not even.
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  #7  
Old March 9th, 2008, 12:49 AM
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Jim that list is almost identical to what i just had done. Sounds like we have the same issue.
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  #8  
Old March 9th, 2008, 01:30 AM
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Jim.... Also make sure that the wheel bearings are sufficiently tight. Otherwise the rotor can wobble, and that causes a lot of fun every time you turn. Easy to check for this one, just jack the front end up and see if you can shake the wheels and make them wobble.

If the booster was bad, they would feel rock-hard right from the start. It doesn't feel like it wants to swap-ends on you does it? Is it really weak all around, or does the back end get all wiggly?

Also makes me wonder if there is a mismatch in rotor/caliper parts. I.E. If you had the wide calipers with the narrow non-vented rotors.

-Hans
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  #9  
Old March 9th, 2008, 03:17 AM
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Thanks Hans- Right now I can't drive the truck to check it out since I'm on the wrong continent. The wheel bearings could easily be going, but I don't think there is any other wheel bearing type issues - vibration, buzzing etc.

JE Robison's did the work, so I'm counting on the parts being correct. I know the pedal would be very hard if there was no assist, but I've had wierd problems with other servos so I just don't rule them out. My Alfa was actually leaking brake fluid into the servo one time, it produced very odd brake feel.

I actually had to just tell Robison's to stop working on the truck - my original brief to them was fix the minimum stuff to make it safe but it turned out to not be that simple, and when the bill got too high, I just told them to cease work. Nothing wrong with the shop - they're all great people who are super-knowledgable and helpful, instead I just consider it a problem with trying to arrage work from overseas when you can't even look at the truck.
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  #10  
Old March 9th, 2008, 03:25 AM
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Ahhh, that's right. You've got the '95 with you there in Russia, right? Yeah, that can make things a bit tough. If it's Robison's, I'd trust the parts to be correct as well. Reminds me of some oddball brake issues I was having with the CJ-7. Still haven't figured them out, but it's not on the road currently.

Hey, while you're over there.... If you ever get to the Kubinka tank museum, try to beg them to open up the turret for the KV-2 and take some photos inside for me, will ya? The more the better, and don't skimp the details.
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  #11  
Old March 9th, 2008, 04:59 AM
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I have a disc brake salsbury and full pedal is less than 2.5 inches. If you can pump the brake pedal up hard will sitting still but it then goes nearly to the floor after driving it a block or so I would suspect wheel bearings. If you have trouble pumping it up while sitting still and then the pedal slowly drops to the floor while you keep pressing on it I would suspect the master.
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  #12  
Old March 9th, 2008, 12:11 PM
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110 Brakes

If you end up suspecting either the Master or Slave cylinder, I recommend replacing both and the flexhose just above the slave. I had the slave cylinder fail just after the national rally last year. I replaced it (cheap part and not a hard job) only to have the master fail two days later. I've heard lots of folks relate the same experience.

Replacing the master is a bit more involved, but not that hard. Just difficult to get to.
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  #13  
Old March 9th, 2008, 12:17 PM
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John - are you talking brakes or clutch?

Hans - I actually have the 94 here in Russia, the Tdi truck and the 110 are with my wife in NY.
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Old March 9th, 2008, 03:24 PM
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The master is cheap and easy to replace for the brakes. Mine took about 15min and cost about $120. Bleeding afterwards takes a little longer but is easy for two people to do together.
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Old March 9th, 2008, 04:12 PM
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Jim Im talking brakes mine is converted to an auto trans.

Doug I can pump the brakes all day long and nothing happens until the pedal is almost to the floor and then they engage and you have to press really hard to get it to stop. It feels dangerous. I had some guy cut me off about an hour ago and almost slammed into the back of him because of how long the travel is.
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  #16  
Old March 9th, 2008, 09:05 PM
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If the rear brakes are drum, check to see the the shoes were installed properly. There is a leading and a trailing shoe, and they need to be on the right way around. Don't ask me how I know this. Maybe this link can shed some light on your problem...

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  #17  
Old March 10th, 2008, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix37
Jim Im talking brakes mine is converted to an auto trans.

Doug I can pump the brakes all day long and nothing happens until the pedal is almost to the floor and then they engage and you have to press really hard to get it to stop. It feels dangerous. I had some guy cut me off about an hour ago and almost slammed into the back of him because of how long the travel is.
Sorry, I was addressing John Crouse, because his post talked about the master, slave, soft line, and poor access to the master, which made me thing he was talking clutch.
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  #18  
Old March 10th, 2008, 03:04 AM
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make sure the drums are adjusted... this is a manual job not automatic.
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  #19  
Old March 10th, 2008, 09:47 AM
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Who makes a good conversion kit from drums to discs for the rear Sals on the 110?
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  #20  
Old March 10th, 2008, 10:02 AM
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Zeus Engineering, UK only though.

http://www.zeus.uk.com/land-rover.php

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