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  #1  
Old April 19th, 2012, 10:18 AM
Roverlab
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Trevor Griffiths
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109 with a 4BT

Hi all!
I've got a customer with a Cummins and a T18/19 4 speed mated to a Series tcase with an Ashcroft Hi range modified case.
The customer drove the Rover most of the way across the country and developed transmission and transfer case issues after getting home. Lots of metal in the trans and transfer case, but am thinkng the failures are unrelated. (The trans wouldn't shift sometimes, and sometimes wouldn't even roll if reverse had been selected. lots of damage to the reverse gear and idler. Currently at Novak for an overhaul). The transfer case would pop out of hi range and has damage to the low gear as well as the speedo drive housing- big gouges on the inside of that housing that likely put debris into the bearings causing binding.
My question is: Before we rebuild the Ashcroft (for what would be the 3rd time after another shop had a go at it), is there a better option for a transfer case in this set up?
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  #2  
Old April 19th, 2012, 10:30 AM
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Thanks, Jeff. The whole thing is on the bench and apart. Wanted to cover all of the bases before jumping in and hopefully id the issue that caused the failure(s).
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  #3  
Old April 19th, 2012, 10:40 AM
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You can also do an LT230 which might be more cost effective, but given the rear axle is offset, you are basically chosing between rover options.
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  #4  
Old April 19th, 2012, 10:52 AM
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Dana 300 of course, with a twin stick kit on it. In my opinion the best transfer case ever built. You can put a blown 540 in front of it and it won't even feel it. I'd also pop for the Novak intermediate shaft thing. If I had it to do over again on my old project I woulda used one instead of the dana 18/20. However instead of the shift levers coming up thru the floor I would have done a custom bracket that mimicked the red/yellow knob and used rod linkage. That would have been trick.
Alternately a Dana 18 is pretty much a straight up bolt on and if you use the Jeep drum brake on it all you need is a way to operate the brake. I have also seen a disc brake adapter for that TC somewhere.
Novak has the adapter for the t18/19 to dana 300, as well as the dana 18 or 20. And the input gear.

One thing that makes the Dana 300 or 18/20 only slightly unattractive is that the front prop shaft flange will be much farther back than the Rover one by several inches (forget exactly how much). That means that the prop shaft may hit the Series cross member. Otherwise it is a marriage made in heaven.
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Old April 19th, 2012, 11:00 AM
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Any pix of how the case fit with the crossmember, how the shift levers are located, how the propshafts bolt up?
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Old April 19th, 2012, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverlab View Post
Any pix of how the case fit with the crossmember, how the shift levers are located, how the propshafts bolt up?
Sorry man, wish I could but I took that thing all apart already. I used the old prop shafts and cut the crossmember. I think I had to have the front one remade as it was too short. Since the Series Rover prop shafts are Dana-Spicer it all fit like factory. For the rear mounts I made a bracket from 1/4 inch angle and used the two bolts on the underside of the transfer case adapter plate. Not very scientific and definitely not "Equipe" but you couldn't bend it.
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  #7  
Old April 19th, 2012, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
Sorry man, wish I could but I took that thing all apart already. I used the old prop shafts and cut the crossmember. I think I had to have the front one remade as it was too short. Since the Series Rover prop shafts are Dana-Spicer it all fit like factory. For the rear mounts I made a bracket from 1/4 inch angle and used the two bolts on the underside of the transfer case adapter plate. Not very scientific and definitely not "Equipe" but you couldn't bend it.
Scout Dana 300 not jeep, correct? What do you do with the center rear output?
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  #8  
Old April 19th, 2012, 01:47 PM
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Trevor,
Dan Prasada-Rao has a 4bt in a 109 and its seemingly bullet proof. he'd be a good person to ping. He's slorocco here on the forum.

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Name Dan Prasada-Rao Location Great Mills, MD, USA Rover #1 1963, 109 Station Wagon
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  #9  
Old April 19th, 2012, 03:07 PM
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I'm running an LT230 that has held up very well for about 4 or 5 years now. In front of that is an SM420 transmission that has a 7.0:1 first gear. The t-case is divorce mounted behind the tranny.

The Cummins 4BT I have is the cpl 858 which means it's non-intercooled and has about 105hp. Not sure which version your customer us running but I'm at the low end of the scale for hp and torque.

Having said all that i can tell you that my choices were made mostly on the basis of what I had on and or could find cheap and build easily.

I agree with earlier comments that the series t-case is pretty stout and should have held up pretty well. Same goes for the T-18 tranny. Not sure why it would have failed. I don't think it's is for lack of strength.
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  #10  
Old April 19th, 2012, 03:27 PM
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Dammit, you caught me. Yeah, it's pretty tight. I actually get a little drivshaft to tranny rub on that reverse hump when the right front wheel stuffs all the way up. It doesn't rub in static condition like on an RTI ramp but when bouncing hard on the trail it will occasionally touch just a hair.

I can post a pic tonight when I get home.
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  #11  
Old April 20th, 2012, 07:36 AM
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Nice truck, looks a lot cleaner than my old beater. Couldn't find any pics from underneath last night. I'll try to take some this weekend. The 88 is a friends truck, the 109 is mine.
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  #12  
Old April 20th, 2012, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
Scout Dana 300 not jeep, correct? What do you do with the center rear output?
On a 109 it's no a big deal. Have to cut up the cross member behind the trans anyway. On an 88 it would be a no go. This is why I went with the Dana 18/20 Hybrid TC with the Jeep drum brake on it. Very similar to the original config.

Nothing wrong with the Series TC except that aftermarket 4:1 gears can be had for the Dana and not for the Rover one. If you want insane crawler gearing you kinda have to go with something other than the Rover TC.
Dana 18 with TeraFlex 3.15 low and Saturn OD is a pretty flexible setup. I will admit that it is not a simple thing to get it in the Series chassis. I think with Rover diffs I calculated the TeraLow kit would have given me a low low in the mid 90's. Anyway it never happened and that whole mess is off the table forever.
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  #13  
Old April 20th, 2012, 03:01 PM
Roverlab
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Novak says the T19 was locked in 3rd gear, which is what it would do intermmitently in the driveway. On the road, it would occasionally balk/block a shift.
The t-case would jump out of high range and it didn't appear to be a linkage issue. We cut the crossmember out to take the parts out the bottom. I agree that engineering another case and linkage may eat up a lot of time, but I also don't want to spend any of his money in the wrong direction! Plus, I think this will be up for sale when it's mobile again.
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  #14  
Old April 20th, 2012, 05:35 PM
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So was it just bad detent springs/balls or something or was the shaft the forks live on jacked up?
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  #15  
Old April 20th, 2012, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
Ive done a bit of work on my dads 109 (SM420, Series case),same issues. http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...7&d=1326503518

Not a deal breaker, but pretty tight.

-Jeff

Nice 109 I see you have rear springs on the front, I did the same and had custom rear springs from national built. It will clear 36" swampers with spring under.

Ed
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  #16  
Old April 21st, 2012, 10:48 AM
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Plus, I think this will be up for sale when it's mobile again.
Any pics?
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Old July 17th, 2012, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by tommyd View Post
Any pics?
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...635#post360635
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