10 Spline hallf shaft/CV woes.... need some help - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old June 13th, 2012, 04:09 PM
bossman429's Avatar
bossman429
Status: Offline
Adrian
1988 90
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Red Bank, NJ, USA
Posts: 1,416
Registry
10 Spline hallf shaft/CV woes.... need some help

So what a cluster "F" this week has been.

I was at rausch creek last weeked, drove 200 miles out there fine with my new engine. Got 50' into the first trail and snapped a CV. I should say exploded it.

No biggy, we had a spare (someone else not me).... no good, its a 24 spline

So we get Randy from Roverbones to bring up a 10 spline later that day (awesome guy), go to put it in and Nope no good. The CV end is about 1" shorter than my broken one.

So we bolt it back up without a halfshaft, lock the CD and drive home like a limp dog.

I was supposed to go to RC again this weekend, and picked up a set of disco axle assemblies from Randy. But, he had found the correct CV for my truck and I figured I'd just use that this weekend, take it easy, and build up these two assemblies to my liking.

Wellll.... after overnighting the CV i realized its just a CV. I was expecting a CV and half shaft. Nope, can't put it on the old half shaft b/c i threw the old one out!

Ugh. I have no idea what my axle shaft should be, i know my differntial is a 10 spline. Does anyone have a clue where I can get the half shaft for this CV I now have?

(note this is the LH shaft which is the long one on my truck.)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0078[1].jpg
Views:	86
Size:	142.8 KB
ID:	52878  
__________________
1967 Series IIa 109 5 Door - Work in progress
'98 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 Series
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old June 13th, 2012, 04:15 PM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Online
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,252
Registry
Huh?? Why would you throw out the axleshaft because of a broken CV??

You need an AEU2522 CV joint. Axleshafts are FRC3890 (RH), 3891 (LH)

Always carry spares shafts and a CV. They are cheap..
__________________
Pissing people off on the "net" since 1983.

Land Rover. Turning owners into mechanics since 1948.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old June 13th, 2012, 04:17 PM
bossman429's Avatar
bossman429
Status: Offline
Adrian
1988 90
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Red Bank, NJ, USA
Posts: 1,416
Registry
Well i was planning on just swapping in the entire disco 24spline assembly, but from what everyone was talkign about it seemed like what i had was very abnormal, so i figured wtf just get a whole new kit. not realizing i would just swap the CV over.

Stupid i know, still learning this Rover stuff.

Thanks for the help
__________________
1967 Series IIa 109 5 Door - Work in progress
'98 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 Series
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old June 13th, 2012, 04:37 PM
bossman429's Avatar
bossman429
Status: Offline
Adrian
1988 90
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Red Bank, NJ, USA
Posts: 1,416
Registry
Well this part aint cheap. Rovers north wanst $1k for one

told em they are on crack
__________________
1967 Series IIa 109 5 Door - Work in progress
'98 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 Series
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old June 13th, 2012, 04:41 PM
rijosho's Avatar
rijosho
Status: Offline
Joshua
1995 Black ST - Rhinolined edition
Research Assistant/Eagle Eyes
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 16,557
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossman429 View Post
Rovers north wanst
The only thing I use RN for is an occassional part number look-up and always buy elsewhere for much cheaper!
__________________
Quote:
I am talking purely from an aesthetics standpoint.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old June 13th, 2012, 05:11 PM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Online
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,252
Registry
Not abnormal. There are two main axles series that changed around 1994. You have the earlier style. It is better than the later style....

Do you not have locals to get used parts from? 10/23 axles are free junk around here.... Everyone pulls them out to put in real diffs. Around $65 retail new, http://www.paddockspares.com/frc3890...t-assy-rh.html
__________________
Pissing people off on the "net" since 1983.

Land Rover. Turning owners into mechanics since 1948.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old June 13th, 2012, 05:57 PM
Jake1996d1's Avatar
Jake1996d1
Status: Offline
Jake
96 Disco/88 RRC
Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Ankeny IA
Posts: 451
Get the disco axles from Randy and then upgrade them with HD stuff later down the road. if you broke that 50' into the trail you will break a AEU2522

And the 10 spline stuff Randy has should bolt up. The difference between the axles is the length of the axle shaft after the CV like you found out last weekend. Randy should have what you need.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old June 13th, 2012, 06:47 PM
bossman429's Avatar
bossman429
Status: Offline
Adrian
1988 90
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Red Bank, NJ, USA
Posts: 1,416
Registry
Yea no one has them here b/c they were never brought into the US on any trucks for the most part.

That being said - I thought about doing this (thanks to Don) if I can't get a halfshaft:

Pull the third member and 1 remaining axle from the housing on my truck now.

Pull the third member and axles from the disco housing I got from Randy.

Put in the Disco axles and third member into my housing on the truck. Obviously i would check and make the the gears are the same. If they aren't I would do this for the rear as well.

Is there any reason why these axles and third members wouldn't swap over into my housing easily? From what I can tell everything looks like it will fit.
__________________
1967 Series IIa 109 5 Door - Work in progress
'98 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 Series
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old June 13th, 2012, 07:17 PM
Baldewin's Avatar
Baldewin
Status: Offline
Chris Baldewin
Bastard 90
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Republican Sanctuary of CA
Posts: 878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake1996d1 View Post
Get the disco axles from Randy and then upgrade them with HD stuff later down the road. if you broke that 50' into the trail you will break a AEU2522

And the 10 spline stuff Randy has should bolt up. The difference between the axles is the length of the axle shaft after the CV like you found out last weekend. Randy should have what you need.
Is the above possible? Can you put the later style cv's in the newer style axle/hubs and just use the thinner drive flanges. Something tells me this won't work unless you change the hubs as well.

Not sure and am curious as well as I have the AEU2522 hubs and would like to change them out at some time.
__________________
Chris
“Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes”
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old June 13th, 2012, 07:37 PM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Online
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,252
Registry
It won't work. You have the earlier wider hubs, which need the earlier longer CV joints and those need the 10/23 spline inner axles. It does not mix and match. You want me to mail you a shaft? They are garbage up here. Use them for prybars and tent pegs.

Lots of people down there have early trucks. All the imported 25 year plus trucks have the same axles.
__________________
Pissing people off on the "net" since 1983.

Land Rover. Turning owners into mechanics since 1948.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old June 13th, 2012, 08:13 PM
bossman429's Avatar
bossman429
Status: Offline
Adrian
1988 90
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Red Bank, NJ, USA
Posts: 1,416
Registry
Learned rule 1 and didn't know the half shafts were worth anything without a cv. Now I know they are two separate parts and not always an assembly


What if I swapped the hubs over as well? Would the disco axles work then? I would just retain the rotors as I believe mine are thinner than the disco ones. And possibly a different offset

That being said if you could mail me a lh (long side) axle shaft that would be awesome. I'll pm you with details.
__________________
1967 Series IIa 109 5 Door - Work in progress
'98 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 Series
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old June 13th, 2012, 09:16 PM
don's Avatar
don
Status: Offline
Don Bunnell
'86 110 3dr ST
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rumson, NJ
Posts: 4,272
Registry
Yeah, I remember bossman saying he was going to toss the axle out and part of me was thinking "might wanna keep it" but didn't the thought didn't make it to my mouth. We started the day at 5:00am drove 3 hours to RC, rode trail all day in a ST in full sun (a little warm), tried to make a trail-side repair until 8 and then hung out at the camp fire until midnight. Don't think either of us were running on all cylinder's when he tossed it.

Was just at his house earlier. One thing I don't think that was mentioned is he is running RHD and will need to swap the steering knuckle (I think that's the piece). If the axle housing that is on the truck is the same (or close enough) could he: pull all the guts of the axle apart that is on the truck, put in the Disco third, then take all the Disco parts and install in the axle on the 90 but keep the existing steering knuckles? Red90 - hub being wider makes sense as the CV was the part that was hard to find correct on Friday but are there differences with the knuckles? If the knuckles have to be changed anyways, maybe it will be slightly easier to keep the one housing on the truck to save a few steps?

Regarding breakage - I think Randy said it best - those CV's didn't just break on trail on Friday. My guess is they had been stressed and the situation just did them in. Carrying spares would be a good idea but if wheeling Rausch or in the northeast and going 24 spline, there should an axle available only a day away.

Judging from the trucks we rode with on Friday and my own I was telling bossman beefing up there rear axle and adding a traction aid could get a lot for the buck.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old June 14th, 2012, 12:03 AM
Jake1996d1's Avatar
Jake1996d1
Status: Offline
Jake
96 Disco/88 RRC
Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Ankeny IA
Posts: 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossman429 View Post
Learned rule 1 and didn't know the half shafts were worth anything without a cv. Now I know they are two separate parts and not always an assembly


What if I swapped the hubs over as well? Would the disco axles work then? I would just retain the rotors as I believe mine are thinner than the disco ones. And possibly a different offset

That being said if you could mail me a lh (long side) axle shaft that would be awesome. I'll pm you with details.
Adrian

The difference starts at the stub axle It's longer, the hub bearing spacing is wider, and the axle portion past the CV joint is longer and requires the larger flanges. So you will need 24 spline axles and CV's, Stub axles, hubs and axle flanges to do the full swap.

Here is a comparison pic of some HD 110 stuff vs disco stuff you can see the difference. What you cant see in the rest of the pic is the rest of the axles are the same length as the housings are the same.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	cvs.jpg
Views:	118
Size:	131.6 KB
ID:	52910  
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old June 14th, 2012, 12:47 AM
carlosz's Avatar
carlosz
Status: Offline
Carlos
frank stein "frankie" in action RIP
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: east coast
Posts: 964
Registry
to do a swap, the most logical thing to do is to strip a disco 1 differential down to the hubs.
of course the axle shaft is a 24 spline drive so that is needed (a no brainer) ditto for the differential and the cv's.
here is the fun part, the spindle or stub must be from an abs equipped truck of course the disco is abs... the stubs from a 90 to 95 classic with abs fit as well. the reason is the cv is bigger thus the inner seat of the stub has a little extra clearance so the cv fits... the 10 spline stub is narower inside diameter...
the bearing hub of the early A suffix axle is about 1/4 inch wider in order to house the 5 inch shorty drive, also the bearings are of smaller inside diameter so the 10 spline bearing hub will not fit onto the donnor 24 spline stub... that is the reason why a complete set of 24 spline guts is needed to do a swap, you cannot mix and match between 10 and 24.
the abs set up has drive flanges upfront and a shallow head rear axle.
I have an 87 range which used 10 spline trutracs and i kept on mowing thru axles, I attempted to mix and match and nothing matched, my only option left was to purchase a wrecked donnor disco and swap all but the axle housings.
I do have some 10 spline stuff left but I think it is all abs, I dont think it fits your truck as the cv splines are different. contact paul grant @ mac.com he may have something, but stuff for older trucks is getting harder to find, reason many of us have done the 24 spline conversion.
best of luck...
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old June 14th, 2012, 01:06 AM
Jake1996d1's Avatar
Jake1996d1
Status: Offline
Jake
96 Disco/88 RRC
Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Ankeny IA
Posts: 451
I agree with Carlos - not to mention all the good heavy duty stuff for rovers is 24 spline.

I am going to be parting the axles off a disco once I get the engine and trans pulled. Let me know if want the goods.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old June 14th, 2012, 06:52 AM
bossman429's Avatar
bossman429
Status: Offline
Adrian
1988 90
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Red Bank, NJ, USA
Posts: 1,416
Registry
Ok. I think there is some confusion. I have a set of complete disco assemblies. Front and rear, housings and all. The only thing I don't have is the front calipers

My question is if I want to do a 24 spline Conversion how much do I have to gut and transfer? Down to the swivel ball housing? Do the swivel ball housings need to be swapped as well?
__________________
1967 Series IIa 109 5 Door - Work in progress
'98 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 Series
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old June 14th, 2012, 07:25 AM
junkyddog11's Avatar
junkyddog11
Status: Offline
oil soaked filter
95 RRC 300tdi
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: No. Berwick, Maine
Posts: 1,253
You can (and need to for RHD) keep your swivels. You need to swap everything else. Spindles, hubs, axles. If you can't find what you need I to fix your old junk have several older complete 110 axles (RHD) from conversions and can pull some bits out. Might even just have some half shafts, although after Johns suggested used as tent pegs I might need them. I had thought about making a stair rail with old half shafts for spindles........perhaps a garden fence / gate?......yup......
__________________
Matt Browne


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

"Dedicated to the resurrection of junk through engineering?"
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old June 14th, 2012, 07:32 AM
bossman429's Avatar
bossman429
Status: Offline
Adrian
1988 90
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Red Bank, NJ, USA
Posts: 1,416
Registry
Ok. So basically if I swap everything up to what this picture shows I'm Ok right?

I think that should be easy enough and a days work
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image-3404029004.jpg
Views:	76
Size:	751.3 KB
ID:	52922  
__________________
1967 Series IIa 109 5 Door - Work in progress
'98 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 Series
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old June 14th, 2012, 07:36 AM
winn442's Avatar
winn442
Status: Offline
Winn Bearden
........
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Americus, GA
Posts: 255
Registry
You can keep your old swivel housings, everything from the spindles on out has to be the new stuff.
__________________
Winn Bearden
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old June 14th, 2012, 08:54 AM
Jake1996d1's Avatar
Jake1996d1
Status: Offline
Jake
96 Disco/88 RRC
Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Ankeny IA
Posts: 451
You should be able to use your calipers and rotors on the disco hubs
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
RR 10 spline diffs. front and rear broadstone For Sale - Parts 2 July 2nd, 2012 09:15 AM
Will Calipers and rotors from a 10 spline D90 work on a Disco Axle tomaco1 Defender Technical Discussions 13 December 14th, 2010 11:16 PM
10 Spline Axle Parts Series / 90 / 110 Wolf Fabrication For Sale - Parts 0 April 6th, 2010 06:25 AM
TOO MUCH STUFF, Disco/RRC/Series/Defender/P38 GARAGE SALE RedRhinoProducts For Sale - Parts 5 May 20th, 2006 09:19 PM
10 spline Series 2/2a/3 axles (3 sets) Seriesman For Sale - Parts 0 October 25th, 2004 12:53 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:40 PM.


Copyright