1-Ton (Mil-spec?) 110 front axles - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old January 15th, 2013, 02:26 PM
Jackie Treehorn's Avatar
Jackie Treehorn
Status: Offline
A
1985 (legitimately)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,984
Registry
1-Ton (Mil-spec?) 110 front axles

Anyone here have any experience with or know the difference between standard 110 front axles/CV/Stubs and mil-spec or Special Vehicles units?

We found that when replacing the swivel balls on my 110 (which was originally a Special Vehicles 110), the replacement swivel ball housings will not accomodate the beefy CV joint. Seems as though the inside diameter/volume of the casting is not large enough on the replacement swivel.

Does this make any sense to anyone?

Bottom line is that the off-the-shelf 110 swivel ball is not fitting and given the origins of my truck I suspect that it is a Mil-Spec vs. civilian part issue.

Will post pics later.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old January 15th, 2013, 02:30 PM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,249
Registry
There are some, but not many with Salisbury front axles. The rest, swivels, etc. is the same as the civilian parts of the age. There are earlier and later CVs, hubs and stubs, so you need to make sure you get the right ones. The earlier ones are stronger than the later.
__________________
Pissing people off on the "net" since 1983.

Land Rover. Turning owners into mechanics since 1948.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old January 15th, 2013, 02:30 PM
grnrvrs's Avatar
grnrvrs
Status: Offline
Paul
88
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: west
Posts: 1,393
Edit: John beat me to it.
__________________
1970 SIIA 88, Sold
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old January 15th, 2013, 03:09 PM
Jackie Treehorn's Avatar
Jackie Treehorn
Status: Offline
A
1985 (legitimately)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,984
Registry
thanks John

here is the CV

also the existing swivel ball is marked with green, the replacement (that does not fit) is the one with thicker casting walls.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20130115_145545.jpg
Views:	134
Size:	63.1 KB
ID:	64550   Click image for larger version

Name:	20130115_115348-1.jpg
Views:	176
Size:	219.0 KB
ID:	64551  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20130115_115359.jpg
Views:	109
Size:	207.9 KB
ID:	64552  
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old January 15th, 2013, 04:21 PM
andy110
Status: Offline
Andy Bard
1986 110 CSW
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Hayes, Gloucester, VA
Posts: 156
Registry
I recently replaced the CV joints AND swivel ball housings on my Salisbury front axle. The CV's that came out of it were the same early type that I replaced them with, same with the swivel housings. Everything fit fine. All the research I have done and and all of the advice I got said that the CV's and swivel balls were the same as fitted to regular front axles.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old January 15th, 2013, 04:28 PM
Jackie Treehorn's Avatar
Jackie Treehorn
Status: Offline
A
1985 (legitimately)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,984
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy110 View Post
I recently replaced the CV joints AND swivel ball housings on my Salisbury front axle. The CV's that came out of it were the same early type that I replaced them with, same with the swivel housings. Everything fit fine. All the research I have done and and all of the advice I got said that the CV's and swivel balls were the same as fitted to regular front axles.
so really its a matter of early type vs. later (post '86) type rather than mil-spec, Salsbury?

Mine are earlier (aparently) and a bit more robust. The CVs are fine, so we will leave them alone, but the swivel balls themselves need to be the early type as well then, correct?

I should have grabbed the serial number off the axle housing. that would probably answer a few questions.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old January 15th, 2013, 04:37 PM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,249
Registry
The change was in 1993 or there abouts.
__________________
Pissing people off on the "net" since 1983.

Land Rover. Turning owners into mechanics since 1948.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old January 15th, 2013, 08:12 PM
andy110
Status: Offline
Andy Bard
1986 110 CSW
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Hayes, Gloucester, VA
Posts: 156
Registry
Yes, there are two types, the early Railko type, and the later type with top and bottom bearings.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old January 16th, 2013, 07:58 AM
diesel_jim's Avatar
diesel_jim
Status: Offline
Jamie Austin
1992 110 Td5 CSW & 1989 MB G-Wagen
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wiltshire, UK
Posts: 1,449
The salisburies came with either 23 or 32 spline CV's, and had the corresponding hubs and swivels.

However I know that the 23 spline (not sure about the 32 spline ones) swivel cup (the large round bit that bolts onto the axle casing) was a HD design for the salisbury.

Yes, a "normal" one will fit straight on, i've done it myself on the old salisbury axle I used to have, but like I say, there was a HD version,. using the AEU2522 CV.

In another post I mentioned, I've got a parts book for the salisbury 8HA front axle for 110's, PM me your email and i'll send it over (.pdf document)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old January 16th, 2013, 08:06 AM
Jackie Treehorn's Avatar
Jackie Treehorn
Status: Offline
A
1985 (legitimately)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,984
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by diesel_jim View Post
The salisburies came with either 23 or 32 spline CV's, and had the corresponding hubs and swivels.

However I know that the 23 spline (not sure about the 32 spline ones) swivel cup (the large round bit that bolts onto the axle casing) was a HD design for the salisbury.

Yes, a "normal" one will fit straight on, i've done it myself on the old salisbury axle I used to have, but like I say, there was a HD version,. using the AEU2522 CV.

In another post I mentioned, I've got a parts book for the salisbury 8HA front axle for 110's, PM me your email and i'll send it over (.pdf document)
Now that's some helpful stuff Jim, Thanks!
I'll PM you for the P/N so I'll have them for next time, but we've already made the executive decision to replace the bushings/pins and simply fix the mild pitting w/JB weld and POR-15. The swivels themselves weren't too badly pitted to begin with, just that the pins had some play. The original plan was just on replace the whole assembly, but I'll do the swivels another time, or if the seals start leaking.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old January 16th, 2013, 08:48 AM
slorocco
Status: Offline
Dan Prasada-Rao
1963, 109 Station Wagon
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Great Mills, MD, USA
Posts: 930
The CV joint in my series Salisbury front axle is the same part number as a Stage 1. Cant remember the number at the moment. The problem is they are very very hard to find and very expensive when you do find them. The 2522 is a good substitute but the splined end on the 2522 is a little bit shorter than the Stage 1 part.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old January 16th, 2013, 09:45 AM
Uncle Douglas's Avatar
Uncle Douglas
Status: Online
Doug Crowther
A defender in every driveway-motto
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gods Country- Central Virginia
Posts: 11,841
Registry
Its easy to tell if you have an uber rare Salisbury front axle. Does the diff pan unbolt from your front axle or is it a weld on pan ?
__________________
Good judgement comes from experience,experience comes from bad judgement.

Dividing Creek Imports
Worldwide Vehicle Shipment and Importation Service
Restoration & Modification work


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

410.693.1391


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old January 16th, 2013, 10:35 AM
Jackie Treehorn's Avatar
Jackie Treehorn
Status: Offline
A
1985 (legitimately)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,984
Registry
no Doug, mine's definately NOT Sals, but most likely a Stage 1.
Haven't counted the splines but Diesel Jim was cool enough to forward along some parts lists and UK suppliers for the bigger axles, CVs and swivels.

I'm definately still a Greenhorn in this land with only a few years of ownership to speak for, but I imagine that there have been so many variations and parts used by Land Rover over the years that even seasoned veteran mechanics and owners learn of new configurations and setups all the time.

Definately thankful for all the valid input here. Someday I'll probably have enough to pay it forward.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old January 16th, 2013, 11:17 AM
Uncle Douglas's Avatar
Uncle Douglas
Status: Online
Doug Crowther
A defender in every driveway-motto
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gods Country- Central Virginia
Posts: 11,841
Registry
Bet you have the standard early 110 front axle with 1 ton cv's.
__________________
Good judgement comes from experience,experience comes from bad judgement.

Dividing Creek Imports
Worldwide Vehicle Shipment and Importation Service
Restoration & Modification work


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

410.693.1391


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old May 16th, 2013, 09:39 AM
Jackie Treehorn's Avatar
Jackie Treehorn
Status: Offline
A
1985 (legitimately)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,984
Registry
I hate that I have to revisit this as I thought we had the issue resolved.

What we had done was rebuild the swivel pins/bushings only (as the CVs were fine) and since the early swivel ball housings could not be located and the existing ones were not pitted too badly, we opted to refinish them with JB weld and then coated in POR-15 (like you stingy Series guys do!). Well, the POR-15 did not adhere and the surface irregularities are now causing the wiper seals to leak.

The primary problem is that we can't readily source the early (thinner casting with more relief for the larger AEU2522 CVs) swivel housings.

What are my options?
1) search high/low for the proper swivel housings (maybe find them in UK)?
2) downgrade from the 32-spline axles and go to the newer CV joint and corresponding swivel hub? (this would suck IMO because not only are we tossing good parts and paying for new ones to accomplish this, we are going to a lower-spec. assembly).
3) Has anyone machined the newer swivel housings to accept the larger CVs?
4) I thought of just packing the swivel with regular axle/bearing grease (like what was in there for years) so it stops leaking the lower viscosity swivel grease through the wiper seals.
5) it's been also suggested that I just find an entire axle out of an RRC as well which may be cheaper. but again, it's not the same strength as what I'm running now.

I'm not doing any hard wheeling, don't have lockers, but will do some towing and end up in soft sand all the time.

Here is a picture of the inside of the older swivel housing i'm currently running vs. the newer version on the right:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20130115_115348-1.jpg
Views:	94
Size:	219.0 KB
ID:	72429   Click image for larger version

Name:	20130115_115359.jpg
Views:	85
Size:	207.9 KB
ID:	72430  

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old May 16th, 2013, 09:42 AM
Jackie Treehorn's Avatar
Jackie Treehorn
Status: Offline
A
1985 (legitimately)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,984
Registry
here is what the swivels looked like before, during and after the refurb:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20130115_172040.jpg
Views:	469
Size:	265.6 KB
ID:	72431   Click image for larger version

Name:	20130115_181112.jpg
Views:	236
Size:	261.5 KB
ID:	72432  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20130116_122943.jpg
Views:	186
Size:	226.7 KB
ID:	72433   Click image for larger version

Name:	imagejpeg_1.jpg
Views:	173
Size:	48.8 KB
ID:	72434  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1010.jpg
Views:	189
Size:	100.6 KB
ID:	72435  
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old May 16th, 2013, 11:18 AM
evilfij's Avatar
evilfij
Status: Offline
evilfij
I have never seen a rover in person
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the internet
Posts: 14,688
I know NAS 110s had those CV joints so I don't see why it is that had to get swivel balls.
__________________
*not legal advice*
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old May 16th, 2013, 03:52 PM
Jackie Treehorn's Avatar
Jackie Treehorn
Status: Offline
A
1985 (legitimately)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,984
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
I know NAS 110s had those CV joints so I don't see why it is that had to get swivel balls.

I thought NAS 110s had these CVs (milled outer edge for ABS sensor pick-up)?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20130115_115425.jpg
Views:	100
Size:	89.1 KB
ID:	72470  
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old May 16th, 2013, 05:26 PM
evilfij's Avatar
evilfij
Status: Offline
evilfij
I have never seen a rover in person
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the internet
Posts: 14,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post

I thought NAS 110s had these CVs (milled outer edge for ABS sensor pick-up)?
Nope

http://www.roverparts.com/Parts/AEU2522.cfm
__________________
*not legal advice*
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Tags
110, axle, front axle

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Another 1986 LHD Def 110 Stationwagon SAUDI spec. rivermike For Sale - Vehicles 10 November 28th, 2017 09:44 PM
GBR or similar axles for Salisbury axle 110 or regular front diff.. the rover shop Wanted 26 October 26th, 2012 10:32 PM
Truetrac setup in my 110 front axle aclarke Defender Technical Discussions 9 May 4th, 2012 11:52 AM
TOO MUCH STUFF, Disco/RRC/Series/Defender/P38 GARAGE SALE RedRhinoProducts For Sale - Parts 5 May 20th, 2006 09:19 PM
110 Military Swivels, balls, CV's, complete outer Buckon37s For Sale - Parts 20 November 3rd, 2004 12:14 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:39 PM.


Copyright