What causes drum brakes to fall apart? - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old October 23rd, 2014, 12:55 AM
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David Short
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What causes drum brakes to fall apart?

What causes drum brakes to break .... Or more specifically just fall apart?

My parking brake got "stuck" on the other day and when it broke free the shoes hair fell apart. From the looks of it - the worst shoe had been falling apart for quite a while.

But I guess the real question is why do brakes break the night before you are supposed to drive 375 miles to URE?
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  #2  
Old October 23rd, 2014, 01:48 AM
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I heard that! I don't know what caused them to fail, but I do know why they failed now. Murphy! F-ing Murphy and his dang law! Get it done quick and roll. Be grateful it didn't happen on a weekend where as you'd be stuck an extra day or two. My e-brake exploded at 60mph on I-5 while towing my boat up for my two week holiday on Lake Chelan. Sounded like a lawnmower chewing up a gravel bed. Total immobilization. Cost me two days of boating and a few hundred dollars of lake gas on the new assembly. It's hard leaving your boat on the side of the road while your 90 gets dragged up a flatbed because the wheels won't roll! Best of luck and enjoy URE!
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  #3  
Old October 23rd, 2014, 02:07 AM
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Dragging and heat damage? Couple that with water infiltration and freezing?
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  #4  
Old October 23rd, 2014, 03:52 AM
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Require repairs are inversely proportional to the amount of time before next event
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A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 07:51 AM
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And the prize goes to Wolf Fabrication for the right answer coupled with imbedded oil that permeates out when the drum is heated up and forms a glaze that gets gooey when heated more and then adheres to the drum and can also pull chunks off the pads.
This easily happens when driving with the parking brake on for just a few minutes.

I rarely use the parking brake, but recall being on the way to the MAR about 15 years ago when my wife had driven our 109 while I drove the RR Classic towing a trailer with our military mule.
My wife wanted to switch vehicles, so I drove the 109 from Richmond on.
About 5 miles into it smelled something burning and next noticed the hand brake was on.
Since I never use it didn't check it before starting off.
Released it lifted the center seat and cover and smoke was coming out of the drum.
So put everything back and kept on going.
When I got to MAR, I pulled the drum off and chunks of shoe fell out.
Someone in the flea market had a IIA gearbox, So I robbed the hand brake shoes and all was well to start the replacement.
The inside drum had a hell of a glaze.
Sandy Grice had a propane torch.
I slowly heated the robbed shoes until the oil bubbled out, then kept wiping them with a rag until the oil stopped.
Then sanded the shoes with rough sand paper and cleaned the inside of the drum with gasoline and a brillo pad.
The glaze on the drum was tough, but eventually gave way.
Shoes went back on and after a quick adjustment worked flawlessly for years.

Good Luck Dave...
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  #6  
Old October 23rd, 2014, 09:53 AM
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I might have driven with the hand brake on ... A few times in the past.... Only maybe. I am not ready to freely admit it.

.... And I have a slow weep of oil past the rear seal on the gearbox - Land Rover standard issue. So all of those factors above are likely.

By 2 am, I had the spare shoes off my spare transmission on the garage, everything cleaned, and reassembled. The parking brake works great, now.

On road to NC soon.
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 10:01 AM
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Parking brake should never leave anyone stranded. Removing the rear drive shaft takes about 20 mins and then there is one or two short posidrive screws holding the drum on. remove the drum,pull the shoes, put the drum back on replace the drive shaft and drive. Been there done that
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  #8  
Old October 23rd, 2014, 10:07 AM
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Keep in mind that the parking brake is spinning much faster than the road wheels. If it gets used while driving, it will get hot very fast.
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  #9  
Old October 23rd, 2014, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
Parking brake should never leave anyone stranded. Removing the rear drive shaft takes about 20 mins and then there is one or two short posidrive screws holding the drum on. remove the drum,pull the shoes, put the drum back on replace the drive shaft and drive. Been there done that
I know that now! ;-) Thanks for the detail as I wasn't aware it was so easy. I was just so spitting mad at the situation. I had had my mechanic tighten up the e-brake cable just the day before during a service. Messing with anything before a 2000 mile loop is just asking for trouble.
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
And the prize goes to Wolf Fabrication for the right answer coupled with imbedded oil that permeates out when the drum is heated up and forms a glaze that gets gooey when heated more and then adheres to the drum and can also pull chunks off the pads.
This easily happens when driving with the parking brake on for just a few minutes.

I rarely use the parking brake, but recall being on the way to the MAR about 15 years ago when my wife had driven our 109 while I drove the RR Classic towing a trailer with our military mule.
My wife wanted to switch vehicles, so I drove the 109 from Richmond on.
About 5 miles into it smelled something burning and next noticed the hand brake was on.
Since I never use it didn't check it before starting off.
Released it lifted the center seat and cover and smoke was coming out of the drum.
So put everything back and kept on going.
When I got to MAR, I pulled the drum off and chunks of shoe fell out.
Someone in the flea market had a IIA gearbox, So I robbed the hand brake shoes and all was well to start the replacement.
The inside drum had a hell of a glaze.
Sandy Grice had a propane torch.
I slowly heated the robbed shoes until the oil bubbled out, then kept wiping them with a rag until the oil stopped.
Then sanded the shoes with rough sand paper and cleaned the inside of the drum with gasoline and a brillo pad.
The glaze on the drum was tough, but eventually gave way.
Shoes went back on and after a quick adjustment worked flawlessly for years.

Good Luck Dave...
Seems like you have a habit of going to events and spend all the time wrenching...
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 12:09 PM
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My advice is to use it systematically, every time you park, like that you'll never forget to check it on each ride.
If you never use it, and get some moisture inside handbrake cable, then it will turn into nightmare. The day you decide to use it, cable will seized into sleeving, the vehicle will be stucked with handbrake on, you will have to hammer the drum out with shoes pressing on it and when it comes put, it will fall on your chest. Don't ask me how I know.
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
seems like you have a habit of going to events and spend all the time wrenching...
lmfao
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
lmfao
Laugh it up funny guys.
You won't be laughing when I end up helping fix your broken shit and an event...
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 01:02 PM
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Lol.. Until that day we will make the most of it.... And IF that day ever comes about we will make sure YOU are the last one we let know something's broken...
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 01:14 PM
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I'll be the only one who knows how to fix it, muthalikka, so you'll have no choice!
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 01:45 PM
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Hahaha... You just keep on a thinking that Robert,...
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Old October 24th, 2014, 10:41 AM
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The good ole days they were riveted on and the bonding didn't exist. Now we have bonded shoes. You could put a idiot light on the brake, like new cars, and then only forget when the light doesn't work...........
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  #18  
Old October 24th, 2014, 11:12 AM
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Doug - my Stage One does not have an idiot light for the parking brake - but I wish it did. I may have to retro-fit something in and try not to make it look crappy.
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Old October 24th, 2014, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Laugh it up funny guys.
You won't be laughing when I end up helping fix your broken shit and an event...
I aint laughing....oh wrenching god
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Old October 24th, 2014, 11:32 AM
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The good ole days they were riveted on and the bonding didn't exist. Now we have bonded shoes. You could put a idiot light on the brake, like new cars, and then only forget when the light doesn't work...........
Now that is an excellent post!!!!
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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