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  #1  
Old December 12th, 2012, 10:51 AM
woytovich
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Value: aesthetic and $?

I have a line on a 1965 model 109 Land Rover with a "seized" engine, according to the seller. Up to now I have been a Land Cruiser guy but I do love the look of these. What are your thoughts on this truck? Engine options: rebuild (cost?), replace (options?).
What would the $ value be, given everything else is serviceable?
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  #2  
Old December 12th, 2012, 11:15 AM
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from a technician's stand point I would consider it a challenge, from an owner's stand point you need to see the final vehicle the way you picture it...
can you do with the current upolstery? what about paint and body work?... we know of the ngine condition what about the rest of the drive train?, brakes, tires, electrical?
how much are you willing to spend in order to bring it up to a minimal road worthy standard?
do a worst case scenario search of parts and good, decide if you will do the labor or sublet... make a provision of at least 6k in labor costs
add it up and see if that is the way you are willing to go.. if that satisfies you then by all means go a head... if not what expected to see.. oh well there are many more out there...
good luck..
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Old December 12th, 2012, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woytovich View Post
What would the $ value be, given everything else is serviceable?
IMHO looks like this would cost you an arm, a leg, and probably a marriage. Not sure what dollar value you place on those things.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
Condition of the frame and the the rest of the steel (bulkhead, door frames etc) will determine if its a project or something to be parted out.

-Jeff
I said that to him over on ExPo and he said that we're supposed to assume that everything we can't see is in serviceable or rust free condition...
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I am talking purely from an aesthetics standpoint.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by rijosho View Post
he said that we're supposed to assume that everything we can't see is in serviceable or rust free condition...
This frightens me.
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  #6  
Old December 12th, 2012, 11:38 AM
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That is one dangerous and frankly stupid assumption.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 11:45 AM
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everything that we can't see like the frame horns that cant even support the bumper..

probably needs a new frame (3k+) engine work (1k) brake everything (1k) Somethings way off with the doors that we CAN see and the bulkehad that we CAN see looks to be full on rust.

I love love the old 109's!! But this needs alot of work. More pics of course would help to make a better assessment.

$2000 would be my offer.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 11:50 AM
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That's a 40K resto job right there. I am probably a few thousand or so on the low side. Just now in the middle of restoring this same thing. It is eating up hundred dollar bills like a redneck eats beef jerky. I am a knowledgeable and experienced person who can do much of the work myself, so I can save a lot in labor but the hours needed are in the hundreds. Resulting vehicle is worth somewhere between 30 and 150K, depending on who you ask. To my mind it is a parts donor and nothing more.
Unless you know exactly what you are getting into, stay away.
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  #9  
Old December 12th, 2012, 12:03 PM
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Hudson Valley craigslist 109

That truck is a true parts car/major project. Only benefit is that it is all there. Frame is toast, bulkhead needs pillars and footwells, etc. Doors are rotten, door pillars are rotten, all hydraulics are shot, all mechanicals need an overhaul- not just the engine. It has sat for many many years.
It is going to take deep pockets and ALOT of time. Out of pocket parts costs - 3k for a frame, 600 for bulkhead parts, engine rebuild- perhaps $2K, gearbox seals, gaskets, bearings $500, Doors- all 5 $1200, Door pillars $750 for the pair, rear fuel tank $300,Brakes, lines, wiring, guages, paint, weather stripping, seats, upgrades, etc etc...Not that it is not feasable, yes its a mother of a project.
One could source a good used frame and some used parts to offset some of the costs...but the overhaul is still a hell of a big project.
There are some better buys out there- a running 109 with a stuck clutch on the Lancaster Pa craigslist for $2k with a good frame...much better buy as it wont take much to be a runner...
IIRC the seller is only asking $800- not too far off in my opinion...J
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Old December 12th, 2012, 12:35 PM
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I KNOW the assumption is "stupid"... I was just saying that to get some idea of value IF that was the case.

I have not seen the truck in person but I too agree that it is probably in bad shape. Yes, the asking price is $800. I have just finished up a 71 Datsun 240z and am finishing a 78 Land Cruiser FJ40... I am now more inclined to pay more for a truck that needs less rather than get into a huge P R O J E C T... like this looks to be.

That said I wouldn't be against the idea of this body (if it is solid) on a more modern chassis and drivetrain - not a purist point of view I know. I know little to nothing about these trucks and was looking for the sage advice of those WITH that experience.

------ Follow up post added December 12th, 2012 12:36 PM ------

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Originally Posted by Jopadorr View Post
That truck is a true parts car/major project....
Have you seen the truck in person? (Since you are in the region)
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  #11  
Old December 12th, 2012, 01:32 PM
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Welcome Mark
I'm sure we have met at a GCLC event in the past.

You will find the same issues as old cruisers with old rovers. One thing about rovers is the replacement parts seem to be harder to come by. I would consider this before jumping into a "project" like that even though price may be tempting.

If you really want to get into the rover thing, I would recommend doing a little research here and check out the Rover forums and classified sections here and perhaps Rovers North forums and Land Rover Exchange. A little more knowledge goes a long way in getting the right rover.

Good luck with your search

Gery (AmityFJ on yota forums)
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  #12  
Old December 12th, 2012, 01:40 PM
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I can't tell if it is shadows or dents on the front fenders, but if they are straight they are worth serious coin.

I can count on one hand the number of series trucks I have seen with what I consider to be good original frames. Certainly there are many that the frames have been repaired to an acceptable standard, but there is nothing like a galvanized frame for longevity.

The engine is not too big of a concern as it is quite easy to pick up cheap 2.25/2.5 petrol or diesel engines out of ROW 90s and 110s that get tdi swaps. Frankly, even though it is seized, it would not suprise me in the least that soaking the cylinders would get it turning over and running.

Other than the 100s of hours of labor, the cost of doing something like this is in the little things you don't think about as much as it is in the big ticket items (frame 3k, t-pieces $800, springs $500, wiring harnesses $300, bulkhead repair parts $500 etc.). An original set of lights will cost $250 at least. Just new front and middle seats will be $800. Door panels, hardura trim etc. could be another $500 and a headliner another $500. My view is if your budget does not go down to the level of hinge rebuild kits ($5 each and you need 6), you will underestimate the cost. All that being said, it has a reasonably straight body and what looks to be nicely patinaed paint that could be left so if you were willing to keep that and repair or replace everything steel (including the door frames), it could be a nice truck -- and I rather have this to start with than a butchered running truck with a decently repaired frame and bulkhead.
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  #13  
Old December 12th, 2012, 01:45 PM
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The other thing that no-one has mentioned yet is whether or not there is a valid title and registration.
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  #14  
Old December 12th, 2012, 02:19 PM
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You are likley to get more enjoyment out of the rust free canoe on top of it.
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  #15  
Old December 12th, 2012, 02:57 PM
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I think I may have come accross too negative. It can be done for less, but it takes some time and patience. I am three years into a full up build on a 109 2 door. I started with nothing but parts cars. I scavenged a good used frame from an abandoned project in Canada, a tub from craigslist in Vt. Scored a trashed truck cab that I have cleaned up, etc. Friends have given me parts, etc. I have modified it from stock for several reasons-need for more power and for cost savings. I probably have $5k into it...but have a ton of time in it.
I did speak to the seller of this 109- it was his fathers. Those are not shadows on the wings, they are dents. Passenger side is worse. It needs it all, but is something that can be done.
Frames are out there as are dead RRC/Discos waiting to sacrifice themselves for a worthy project. I am always interested in inexpensive series rover projects, but need another one like I need an STD.-J
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  #16  
Old December 12th, 2012, 03:11 PM
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Its worth the $800 they listed it for, try to get as low as possible, but the roof if all is there should get most of that back. Last i checked the guys on Guns and Rovers couldnt get a response out of the seller. It's a whole land rover for under a grand, with seemingly straight panels, its fine.
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  #17  
Old December 12th, 2012, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
Im surprised someone like YRM or Dunsfold hasnt repoped the series fender parts.

-Jeff
Me too. I guess stamping aluminium is not that easy. What you can't get is the series headlights in the grill front panels.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by woytovich View Post
That said I wouldn't be against the idea of this body (if it is solid) on a more modern chassis and drivetrain - not a purist point of view I know. I know little to nothing about these trucks and was looking for the sage advice of those WITH that experience.
I think it's a great idea. Too early for me to be giving any sage advice, but keep an eye on my 109 PU hybrid hybrid thread if you want to see how my experience goes
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Old December 12th, 2012, 04:51 PM
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Umm, I have a IIa 109 5 door with a galvie frame listed in the For Sale section for a lot less than a restoration. I'm just sayin'.....
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Old December 12th, 2012, 05:14 PM
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We have a saying ... the cheapest Land Rover will be the most expensive car you own.
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