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  #1  
Old August 11th, 2011, 11:58 PM
JBinAlabama
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Question Series Power?

Need some suggestions. We are doing a nut and bolt rebuild on 2each... series 2a with all the rusty parts being prepped to be galvanized.
I need 2 engines total, I have one series petrol that need some work and the second is VERY rough and in parts.
It looks like parts are $500++ to rebuild for the good one and at least double for the one in pieces and then in the end I would have a truck that will barely reach the speed limit.

It sounds goofy, but In the end I would like a machine than can sustain the speed limit.......BUT I don't want to go so far down the rabbit hole that we cant finish the project. This is really about my almost 10 year old learning (and of course QUALITY TIME!) One of his older friends already asks to come over and help, so it must be COOL!

My question is, do i change out the power plant or rebuild the engine I have and purchase another for my brothers. It looks like I can but a turner engineering 2.25 ready to go for 3k or a 200tdi for less? What are your opinions? this will not be a daily driver. I guess with the mount of galvanizing originality is pretty much out the window and I'm sure my son will choose a funky color

Thanks for your thoughts!
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  #2  
Old August 12th, 2011, 12:44 AM
Albersj51
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if I had the funds I would go with a 200tdi; essentially a bolt in swap. Some say it's at the top end of what the gearbox can handle, so be mindful of that.

You could also look at a perkins prima diesel from the UK, but parts may be tricky to source for a reasonable price and time frame, but the same could be said about the 200tdi
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  #3  
Old August 12th, 2011, 02:31 AM
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200tdi with the turbo removed seems to be the best option for easy bolt in and cheap.
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Old August 12th, 2011, 03:07 AM
Albersj51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
200tdi with the turbo removed seems to be the best option for easy bolt in and cheap.
Good point...without the turbo you could get the cheaper more plentiful discovery 200tdi due to no turbo to foul on the chassis. Roverresource.com imports them as do others, but they're not cheap!

Look up some swap info on expeditionlandrover.info
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  #5  
Old August 12th, 2011, 06:51 AM
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Chevy 292 .....cheap and fast... youd pass the diesel like it was standing still but it wouldnt help you on resale.

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  #6  
Old August 12th, 2011, 07:23 AM
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There is a person in G&R selling a Perkins Prima 2.0 TDI.

http://siteground237.com/~gunsandr/showthread.php?803

Do your homework and talk to him. He mentioned that he was having fuel problems.

Here is a good site on the Perkins:

http://www.nhua.co.uk/conversion/perkins.htm
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  #7  
Old August 12th, 2011, 07:41 AM
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I have two GM 3 liter 4 cylinder engines for sale both need work but either one will wake the truck up. PM for details.

This would be a full kit with adapter and everything you need to get going. But like I said, both engines need some kind of work.

Dave
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  #8  
Old August 12th, 2011, 08:12 AM
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Rover V-8 with a carb

That will make it the most road friendly. Dave's GM 3.0 liters are great options, too. Rover or GM both require a transmission adapter.
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  #9  
Old August 12th, 2011, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBinAlabama View Post
Need some suggestions. It looks like parts are $500++ to rebuild for the good one and at least double for the one in pieces and then in the end I would have a truck that will barely reach the speed limit.

It sounds goofy, but In the end I would like a machine than can sustain the speed limit
My question is, do i change out the power plant or rebuild the engine I have and purchase another for my brothers. It looks like I can but a turner engineering 2.25 ready to go for 3k or a 200tdi for less? What are your opinions? this will not be a daily driver. I guess with the mount of galvanizing originality is pretty much out the window and I'm sure my son will choose a funky color

Thanks for your thoughts!
Begin with the nature of the vehicle and it's limitations. There's something to be said for a stock Series that can't go over 65mph. That being said, there are as posted above many different options to the 2.25. I would start by looking at just how you are going to use the truck and how much you are willing to modify the suspension, braking system, and transmission/ drive system. That's really the right way to approach a power modification. Remember that it's all a chain and was designed as such. Start throwing too much torque on a stock trans and drivetrain and something will give. Put too much hp into it and you have to think about the demands on handling and braking.
I have been going through the same question on my Series. At this point I'm still leaning towards keeping the stock 2.25 and just optimizing it's performance with a re-build.
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  #10  
Old August 12th, 2011, 09:14 AM
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Keep the 2.25 and put an overdrive on it and you have the reliability of the stock engine and better top speed if you really need it. The stock engines will keep plugging away under the worst conditions. I once drove a '72 88 from Bluemont, VA to Leesburg with only one cylinder consistently firing (sometimes a second one would fire). It was slow, but made it and ran fine afterwards once I sorted out the issue. They'll run on really crappy fuel too.
They are very simple engines which a big plus.
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  #11  
Old August 12th, 2011, 09:19 AM
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  #12  
Old August 12th, 2011, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevkon View Post
There's something to be said for a stock Series that can't go over 65mph.
Every once in a while someone does it, but they don't seem to be the same person afterwards.
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  #13  
Old August 12th, 2011, 10:19 AM
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I saw a series III maintain 70mph with no overdrive for about 6 miles, shortly afterwards it sat in a parking lot spewing coolant....
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  #14  
Old August 12th, 2011, 10:45 AM
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stock fresh 2.25L engine with 8:1 head produces 70HP @4000 RPM, 120 lbft @ 2000 RPM. This is the best you can hope for with a fresh stock 8:1 rebuild.

stock fresh 2.5L petrol produces 83HP @ 4000 RPM, 133 lbft @ 2000 RPM. A fresh 2.25L rebuild with 9:1 head, 2.5L cam & bigger carb might achieve what a bone stock 2.5L gets in HP but with a shorter crank will produce less torque. If you want a performance petrol engine you are better off starting with the longer crank throw, bigger displacement 2.5.

200 tdi gets 111HP @ 4000 RPM & 146 lbft @ 1800 RPM. It is a way stronger engine that gets a LOT better fuel mileage. The Defender version with high mounted turbo has few fit issues in a Series. The Discovery version with its low mounted turbo interferes with a 109 frame.

A 200tdi without the turbo has a similar power output as a stock 2.5L petrol engine and still gets way better fuel mileage. Removing the turbo destresses the engine making it more long term reliable and makes the conversion easier.

A 300tdi requires some adapting to fit a Series gearbox and has a very similar power spec to the 200tdi. 300tdi engines & parts are easier to find.

Someone mentioned a Chevy in-line six. The bigger ones, like the 292 over stresses the stock gearbox and they take a lot of work to stuff into a 4 cylinder engine bay. They are a fairly easy fit in the LR six cylinder bay though.

Someone mentioned the Rover/GM V8. Having a V8 in my truck, I like V8s. However it takes a lot of work & engineering to properly fit one in a 4 cyl engine bay. But it is easier than fitting an in-line six. The whole drive train except for the transfer case would be overstressed and would need to be upgraded if you want good off road reliability. If you go the V8 route, the Rover/GM is the weakest of the small block V8s with the most expensive parts. A small block Ford or Chevy V8 will fit just as well, are WAY more reliable and parts are much cheaper & available off the shelf at any auto parts store. A Ford 5.0L V8 with aluminum heads is about 50 lbs lighter weight than a stock 2.25L LR engine so the suspension & steering characteristics are not compromised. My 5.0 has more HP & torque at idle than the 2.25L petrol has at peak. Highway fuel mileage is about the same (15-16 MPG) but the EFI gives the V8 better stop and go fuel mileage.

Anyway, look at your pocket book to see what you can afford & pick your poison.
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  #15  
Old August 12th, 2011, 11:04 AM
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A couple of things to consider. First, there is a lot that can be done to increase the performance of the 2.25 motor and still keep it reliable. In a 88" Series with stock brakes, drivetrain, and suspension I doubt you would want more. Another thing to consider is the vast selection of alternate 4 cyl engines out there that in stock form rival a performance enhanced 2.25 or the Tdi's. Ford alone has a great number of 4cyl varients. Some have efi, some have sohc or dohc and almost all are commonly available. It's all about how much work you want to do to achieve a certain performance level
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  #16  
Old August 12th, 2011, 02:11 PM
JBinAlabama
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WOW, a lot of info here!
I'm not going for a hot rod so a v8 is not necessary.
Already have one of those.

I don't really want to rebuild an engine myself.
We do want reliable and I realize any upgrade to power may require better braking.

If I change to a non rover engine, how much of a ding to the value of the truck will I see?
I have not seen any series for sale with alternate power so I have no idea if it totally kills the value.
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  #17  
Old August 12th, 2011, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyRover View Post
I saw a series III maintain 70mph with no overdrive for about 6 miles, shortly afterwards it sat in a parking lot spewing coolant....
Then it was in bad shape to begin with.
I maintained 65-70 most of the way from Cleveland to Madison, WI in my Lightweight with the 2.25 petrol, no overdrive.
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  #18  
Old August 12th, 2011, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBinAlabama View Post
and I realize any upgrade to power may require better braking.
Why? Do you drive less safely if you have more HP? Drive with less space between you and the car ahead? Speed more?

If you go the speed limit, drive defensively with a safe space between you and the car in front what's the issue? More HP doesn't mean you have to start taking chances and cruisin for a bursin.

On the other hand, I consider front disc brakes an important safety upgrade for 109s. 109 front brakes have 2 leading shoes per side and no trailing shoes (88s have a leading shoe and a trailing shoe all the way around, rear 109 brakes have one leading and one trailing shoe). Having 2 leading shoes on each front wheel allows for greater braking power in the forward direction and almost none in the rearwards direction. This means it can be VERY hard to hold a 109 stationary in a steep nose up position. A potential problem on the trail if you need to stop during an ascent or uphill trail section and there is something or someone behind you that you do not want to roll back into. A dangerous situation is you are driving someplace like San Francisco. Disc front brakes on a 109 allows for good braking in the rearwards direction. 88s already have that.
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  #19  
Old August 12th, 2011, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antichrist View Post
Then it was in bad shape to begin with.
You have no idea how right you are, I saw it up for sale a few years later and it wasn't worth 1/3rd of what he was asking, knowing it's history.
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  #20  
Old August 12th, 2011, 05:51 PM
JBinAlabama
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@teriann
I meant greater speed = more stopping.
It's not my intention to build a race car and I'm mostly not a stupid driver...if that is what you meant
That said, I will be adding disc brakes at the front......I was saving that question for later to tell the truth
It's an 88" and I may wait until we are finished but my brother said he will stick with the drums on his.
I like SB fords, and I do have some parts on hand from my backdraft cobra.
I had not considered that the ford may be lighter than the 2.25

we basically have no hills in Alabama compared to the rest of north america

@kevkon, I have nothing against the 2.25 but one engine is in pretty darn bad shape and parts will likely be more than a used replacement

@anti.....WHAT?, I had not considered an overdrive, will check prices!

Everyone, what will the deduct in finished value be for having a non rover engine?

------ Follow up post added August 12th, 2011 06:09 PM ------

@teriann
I meant greater speed = more stopping.
It's not my intention to build a race car and I'm mostly not a stupid driver...if that is what you meant
That said, I will be adding disc brakes at the front......I was saving that question for later to tell the truth
It's an 88" and I may wait until we are finished but my brother said he will stick with the drums on his.
I like SB fords, and I do have some parts on hand from my backdraft cobra.
I had not considered that the ford may be lighter than the 2.25

we basically have no hills in Alabama compared to the rest of north america

@kevkon, I have nothing against the 2.25 but one engine is in pretty darn bad shape and parts will likely be more than a used replacement

@anti.....WHAT?, I had not considered an overdrive, will check prices!

Everyone, what will the deduct in finished value be for having a non rover engine?
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