Series III - Won't shift in to any gears - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old July 23rd, 2016, 11:07 AM
SeriesIII
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J
1973 Series III
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Series III - Won't shift in to any gears

I have a Series III that has been a great runner the past 3 years. Today I went to take it for a drive and got a block from my house and wasn't able to shift it. Won't drive forward or reverse. Had to push it back home.

Checked the clutch fluid reservoir and it was full. Looked underneath and didn't see anything obviously disconnected

I need help from the forum to figure out where I should start the troubleshooting process to identify the problem.

Thanks!!!
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  #2  
Old July 23rd, 2016, 11:15 AM
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Robert Davis
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Can't tell what is happening with your vehicle by the poor description.
Saying it won't shift means you can't move the gear shift leaver to put it in any gear and not sure that's what's happening.
How do you expect help when you don't accurately describe the symptoms?
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

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  #3  
Old July 23rd, 2016, 12:11 PM
SeriesIII
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J
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Thanks Robert.

I just went out to troubleshoot to provide the forum with more details.

All troubleshooting was done at the side of my house. I didn't want to get too far and have to push it home.

1. As recently as yesterday it used to shift into gear (1st, 2nd, 3rd...) very easily. Now I need to let the clutch up and work the main gear lever into first gear.
2. The vehicle will move forward with the transfer gear lever (red) forward (high) and backwards (low).
3. The vehicle will not move backwards while in reverse with the transfer gear lever (red) in forward (high) or backwards (low). Feels like the rear brakes are preventing it from moving. The vehicle shifts into reverse but won't move even with the RPMs high.
4. Pulling the transfer gear lever (red) back and then forward does not appear to release the 4-wheel drive control lever (yellow). It stays down.
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  #4  
Old July 23rd, 2016, 07:35 PM
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Robert Davis
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Much better, J.
If it's an 88 try the following and report back, please.
Put it in neutral main gearbox and T case.
Then can you push the vehicle backwards? yes or no.
Did you recently add new rear brake shoes?
If it's a 109, let us know...
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #5  
Old July 24th, 2016, 09:29 AM
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Could it be a seized transmission brake?
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  #6  
Old July 24th, 2016, 10:17 AM
SeriesIII
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J
1973 Series III
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It is an 88
Yes, it rolls backwards with it in neutral main gearbox and neutral T case
I haven't touched the brakes since purchasing the vehicle 3 yrs ago
I thought it could be the transmission brake (hand brake) so hit the drum a few times with a hammer and backed off the square adjustment bolt and no affect. The vehicle will roll backwards a foot to 3 feet then stops abruptly. Maybe I need to take off the prop and see what might be amiss with the transmission brake's pads, springs, etc. All the linkage looks okay when move the hand brake and observe it from below the truck and from through the driver's seat opening.
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  #7  
Old July 24th, 2016, 06:08 PM
Greg S
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Greg Sutfin
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You pushed it home but now it only moves one to three feet before it stops abruptly. Three feet would be almost half a revolution of a tire which would be about two revolutions of the driveshaft and park brake. I doubt it is the park brake or driveshaft. Could be a broken Axel with something jamming after half a revolution.
The first description about it not getting any movement in any gear was poor but didn't rule out a broken drive shaft.
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  #8  
Old July 24th, 2016, 06:39 PM
SeriesIII
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J
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Hi Greg,
It will drive forward. I only have the issue in reverse.

When driving the vehicle forward, I am driving forward 15 ft, not a great distance. When I put it in reverse it will roll back a foot or two, but then stop abruptly. If after attempting driving it in reverse once I try a second time, it won't move an inch backwards. It feels like I have a rock behind the tires and wont move in reverse at all.

Do you still think the axle could be the issue?
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  #9  
Old July 25th, 2016, 05:48 AM
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Why not pull the axles and troubleshoot your truck for the obvious stuff. Good practice for trail fixes.
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  #10  
Old July 25th, 2016, 10:25 AM
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Rob Dennis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeriesIII View Post
Hi Greg,
It will drive forward. I only have the issue in reverse.

When driving the vehicle forward, I am driving forward 15 ft, not a great distance. When I put it in reverse it will roll back a foot or two, but then stop abruptly. If after attempting driving it in reverse once I try a second time, it won't move an inch backwards. It feels like I have a rock behind the tires and wont move in reverse at all.

Do you still think the axle could be the issue?
Sounds like the parking brake shoe may be loose and binding. Or possibly a brake shoe on the wheel. I have had this happen before with the parking brake.

You might try putting the transfer in neutral and then try using the gearbox in forward and reverse to see if it seems to work properly without the rest of the drivetrain disconnected.
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  #11  
Old July 25th, 2016, 11:10 AM
SeriesIII
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Is there a quick test to see if a half shaft is broken before pulling it out to look at it?
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  #12  
Old July 25th, 2016, 11:34 AM
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Is this correct?
88 will shift into all gears.
Will drive forward.
When in reverse it will move backwards some of the time for a short distance and other times not at all.
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #13  
Old July 25th, 2016, 11:48 AM
SeriesIII
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J
1973 Series III
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- 88 - Yes

- will shift into all gears. - Yes, but I have only driven it forward in first because I need to put it in neutral and push it pack to where I park it.

- Will drive forward. - Yes, but I have only driven it 15+ feet forward.

-When in reverse it will move backwards some of the time for a short distance and other times not at all. - No, it wont move backwards when it is in reverse. Feels like it has wheel chocks behind the wheels. I can get it to roll backwards one to 2 feet before it comes to a dead stop.
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  #14  
Old July 25th, 2016, 12:29 PM
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Check the rear brake shoes.
There is the chance that the trailing shoe is hanging on the drum when moving backwards.
Recently had a similar issue with an 88 and adding a second return spring solved the issue.
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #15  
Old July 25th, 2016, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Check the rear brake shoes.
There is the chance that the shoe is hanging on the drum when moving backwards.
Recently had a similar issue with an 88 and adding a second return spring solved the issue.


x2


I was going to type the same thing.......I literally just had a very similar issue.
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  #16  
Old July 29th, 2016, 09:12 AM
SeriesIII
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J
1973 Series III
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Update:

I pulled off both rear tires and drums and didn't see any obvious issues with the pads, springs, etc.

I jacked up each of the rear wheels independent of one another, so the opposite rear wheel was on the ground. I put the vehicle's transfer case and main gear lever in neutral. Released the hand brake/transmission brake. The wheel spun in reverse randomly.

Here are two YouTube videos I took of the wheels seizing up.

I think the issue is with the transmission brake. Thoughts?

Sorry for the poor video quality and the wind in the mic.

v=sPzSWTOMsDA

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  #17  
Old July 29th, 2016, 09:30 AM
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Chris
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That is so strange.
As others have said, lets pull the driveshafts out and make sure they are still in one piece. If so, time to drain the rear diff. If no metal chunks from rear diff, I think you've cleared the rear end of blame (unless you want to open it up anyway for a look see).
So its time to drain the Transfer box and hunt for metal chunks.
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  #18  
Old July 29th, 2016, 10:38 AM
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Robert Davis
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I still think it's the rear brakes.
Pulling drums and inspecting won'd do anything.
Read the post further up regarding the extra return spring before you rule out rear brakes.
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #19  
Old July 29th, 2016, 10:46 AM
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You could pull the drive flanges off the rear wheels and rotate them, that way they are isolated from the rest of the drive train. If it still does it then the problem is as Robert has stated.
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  #20  
Old July 29th, 2016, 10:48 AM
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John B.
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Just leave the drums of to rule out the rear brakes.

If you think it is the parking brake, back off the adjuster.
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