Series IIa fuel issue - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old August 26th, 2013, 02:05 PM
mokimakan
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Bill
1965 Series IIA
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Series IIa fuel issue

Hi all-

I have a 1965 series IIa with a fuel issue. She has been sitting for a while, so wouldn't start this weekend. She cranked just fine (thank you solar trickle charger!) and with starter fluid would run for a few seconds. I used this as an excuse to go buy a might-vac hand operated vaccum pump, and was able to sucessfully suck gas all the way through the system to the carb. When the little fuel filter near the carb was full she would run happily for about 10 seconds, then crap out again.

So I'm suspicious of the (new style, no glass sediment trap) fuel pump. My question is this: When I apply vacuum to the end of the fuel line near the carb, I get some gas flowing and then a decrease in pressure--might this indicate a leak an fuel line between the pump and the carb, or would one normally expect the suction pressure to decrease somewhat rapidly after some fuel was delivered and you stopped pumping?

Thanks, happy to answer Qs!

Bill
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  #2  
Old August 26th, 2013, 02:10 PM
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Bill Adams
66 109 sw 94 lwb
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Stuck (closed) needle valve.
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1966 109 5 door wagon 300Tdi "spermaceti fueled"
1994 RRC LeWiB "ruining the air behind me"
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  #3  
Old August 26th, 2013, 02:44 PM
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Steve Maietta
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Yeah, I'd pull the carb apart and clean everything out if you haven't done so in a while. the float opens and closes the needle (according to fuel level int he bowl) This needle is what allows fuel into the bowl, so if the needle is sticking closed, or the float is stuck up, then the pump is not going to be able to push the fuel into the carb.

To get a basic check on your pump, you can pull the fuel line from the carb and kick the engine over a bit and see if there is any fuel flow.

I would definitely expect vacuum pressure to drop if the pressure has pulled fuel forward through the line. I don't think it should maintain vacuum in that direction. (positive pressure, it might) it could be that the check valves in you pump are worn/leaking or just shot, a new pump is cheap enough but check the carb first.
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  #4  
Old August 26th, 2013, 03:08 PM
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Bill Adams
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Needle was prolly stuck open until the bowl was filled with fuel, then it stuck closed. Engine started and ran the bowl empty, and of course, conked out.
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1966 109 5 door wagon 300Tdi "spermaceti fueled"
1994 RRC LeWiB "ruining the air behind me"
1968 2A 88

All my troubles are Rover
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  #5  
Old August 26th, 2013, 03:26 PM
mokimakan
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Bill
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Thanks gentlemen, I think I'll sneak out of the office a bit early and give fool around with the carb a bit!
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  #6  
Old August 27th, 2013, 08:43 AM
mokimakan
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Bill
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Welp, thanks to your guidance, I was successful! After disconnecting the fuel line at the carb and using the priming lever on the fuel pump to verify it was indeed moving fuel up the line (duh), I did some light tapping of the carb around the needle valve to unstick it and, voila! Success! Percussive maintenance comes through again!

Thanks for focusing my efforts on the carb.

Bill
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  #7  
Old August 27th, 2013, 09:08 AM
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OK. Now you have to bring that to Happy Hour. Next one is scheduled to be at the Cove during Conclave, so we'll forgive you if you miss that one. However, not making the October one will result in a very angry letter.
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1966 109 5 door wagon 300Tdi "spermaceti fueled"
1994 RRC LeWiB "ruining the air behind me"
1968 2A 88

All my troubles are Rover
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  #8  
Old August 27th, 2013, 11:16 AM
mokimakan
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Bill
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Intriguing...where and when is the October one? The next project is replacing the little 15' wheels and small tires with 16' wheels and larger tires so I can get her above about 45 mph..makes highway travel a bit difficult.
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  #9  
Old August 27th, 2013, 11:25 AM
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Jason Lavender
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Don't take the carb apart yet....just gently tap on it with a hammer and see if that frees up the needle - always worked for me every time I left the Series sitting for months (and I'd have the same exact issue).
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'71 Series IIA
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  #10  
Old August 27th, 2013, 11:30 AM
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Look down a few entries and you'll see the (largest and longest running thread on this Forum) Nova Happy Hour posting.
It is the third Thirstday of every month at Kilroy's located at the beltway and Braddock Rd.
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1966 109 5 door wagon 300Tdi "spermaceti fueled"
1994 RRC LeWiB "ruining the air behind me"
1968 2A 88

All my troubles are Rover
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  #11  
Old August 27th, 2013, 11:40 AM
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Jason Lavender
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The other culprit I just thought of was that I had one of those old plastic fuel lines crack on me when I installed my new fuel pump. It was sucking air, and causing similar symptoms - replaced it with regular flexible fuel line and problem went away. May be worth checking, if you installed a new pump certainly wiggling some stuff around could have cracked those plastic fuel lines.
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'71 Series IIA
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  #12  
Old August 27th, 2013, 01:17 PM
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Post pics of your rig.
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  #13  
Old September 3rd, 2013, 04:35 PM
mgyip
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Matthew
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Interesting read: I'm having similar problems with my Series III, using a Rochester Mono-Jet that doesn't exist in the cross-reference books!!!

If I let the LR sit for a few days, it takes ages of cranking to get enough fuel into the carb to get it started. After that, it diesels terribly at shut-down (to the point that I stall the engine to avoid the dieseling). If I don't open the hood, it vapor locks. I've encased the fuel line in an old heater hose but think I need to build a shield atop the intake manifold in hopes of keeping the the exhaust heat away from the carb.

Here's the latest scenario - The other night, I drove it for a few miles (at night), parked for 30 minutes. The LR started right back up and I drove it 100 yds or so before it "ran out of fuel". We tried squirting starter fluid and it'd run on the fluid for a few seconds before dying. When I opened the fuel tank to check the level, it restarted immediately thereafter. I thought about this being a venting issue but I encountered a similar issue immediately after refueling.

It's been suggested to install an electric fuel pump and a fan to move air around the carb. While those are both excellent suggestions given the source (40 year Master Machinist/Racer/Fabricator), I'm thinking that the LR ran fine when I got it in April (once we set the points). I'd rather not add more stuff to it unless I have to.

Thoughts?
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  #14  
Old September 3rd, 2013, 04:40 PM
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Todd Kendrick
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I would re-check the points gap; everyone always thinks it is the carb..............
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  #15  
Old September 3rd, 2013, 04:47 PM
mgyip
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Matthew
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Point gap causes dieseling? Interesting - didn't realize that but it's been years since I drove a car with points or a carburetor.
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  #16  
Old September 4th, 2013, 07:52 AM
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J. Michael McCaig
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It's carbon on the valves or pistons that causes "dieseling". It gets hot and when the ignition is shut off it will continue to ignite unburned fuel that the carb supplies as long as the engine turns over and creates a vacuum to draw in fuel and run the mechanical fuel pump. I have seen Rochesters installed without the spacer between the carb and intake that is designed to reduce heat transfer. When the carb gets hot, the fuel will boil off in the float bowl making the dieseling worse. No fuel in the float bowl means a longer crank time until engine start. I had a Rochester carb on my Series and loved it but I had to eliminate the heat transfer problem.
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  #17  
Old September 4th, 2013, 10:57 AM
mgyip
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Matthew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LRover View Post
It's carbon on the valves or pistons that causes "dieseling". It gets hot and when the ignition is shut off it will continue to ignite unburned fuel that the carb supplies as long as the engine turns over and creates a vacuum to draw in fuel and run the mechanical fuel pump. I have seen Rochesters installed without the spacer between the carb and intake that is designed to reduce heat transfer. When the carb gets hot, the fuel will boil off in the float bowl making the dieseling worse. No fuel in the float bowl means a longer crank time until engine start. I had a Rochester carb on my Series and loved it but I had to eliminate the heat transfer problem.
My pea-sized brain does remember something about carbon - I need to run some fuel system cleaner thru the motor and see if that addresses that particular headache. The Rochester is mounted atop a 1" spacer which apparently isn't enough. Some of my racer-buddies suggested I fabricate some shielding atop the intake to keep the exhaust heat "down", per se.

Fortunately, I have left-over sheet aluminum (fabricated license plate sticker holders so I didn't have to deface my vintage plates) - if I only had time to do the fab work...
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  #18  
Old September 4th, 2013, 11:08 AM
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o2batsea
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Bill Adams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
Get it up to temp, and pour a couple table spoons of water down the carb every couple of minutes. Works like an internal steam cleaner.

-Jeff
Or blow a head gasket. That works wonders.
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Bill Adams

1966 109 5 door wagon 300Tdi "spermaceti fueled"
1994 RRC LeWiB "ruining the air behind me"
1968 2A 88

All my troubles are Rover
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  #19  
Old September 4th, 2013, 11:11 AM
mgyip
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Matthew
1972/Series 3 88"
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I was thinking of buying some SeaFoam (the VW crowd swears by it), tap into a vacuum line and give the ole 2.25L a "bong hit". The other up-side is that it'll kill the mosquitos in my yard at the same time!!
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  #20  
Old September 4th, 2013, 11:33 AM
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o2batsea
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Bill Adams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
Your thinking of Rover V8's they do that all on their own.

-Jeff
It's a feature.
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Bill Adams

1966 109 5 door wagon 300Tdi "spermaceti fueled"
1994 RRC LeWiB "ruining the air behind me"
1968 2A 88

All my troubles are Rover
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