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  #21  
Old September 4th, 2013, 11:46 AM
mgyip
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Matthew
1972/Series 3 88"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
It's a feature.


I owned VW diesels in the past - one never used the HG word near one b/c the mere mention caused a failure...
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  #22  
Old September 4th, 2013, 12:00 PM
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Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
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I second checking the point gaps and valve clearances, but also check the fuel filter isn't clogged. This won't account for the dieseling, but could affect the cut-out (used to happen to me until I got some crap out of the fuel system). If you have the same carb as mine, the top is easy to pull off in place to check for debris and the jets are easy to pull and clear as well without removing it.
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  #23  
Old September 4th, 2013, 12:07 PM
mgyip
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Matthew
1972/Series 3 88"
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The cut-out feels like a fuel issue - add more than 1/2 throttle to climb Mt Weather and after 5-10 seconds, it starts to stumble. Keep the throttle under 1/2 and it's OK. I haven't had a chance to check the fuel filter but that's next on my list. This also reminds me that I need to pickup the RH tank from you so I'll have more than 12 gallons and (with any luck) a working fuel gauge.

The carb is easy to pull off but it leaks and weeps so it needs a rebuild. When I acquired the LR, TEPO mentioned that it had been parked for a few years before he and his son got it running (barely).
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  #24  
Old September 4th, 2013, 12:10 PM
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Bill Adams
66 109 sw 94 lwb
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In my limited, driveway mechanical experience, most dieseling issues are from timing. If it were me, I would first be sure the dizzer wasn't off by a tooth, the points were gapped, dwell checked with a meter, timing set with timing light, new plugs wires cap rotor condenser, and fresh fuel.
Then I'd be sure the carb float was set properly, the needle valve free, the jets clear, the fuel pump pumpin, and that the vacuum line wasn't leaking.
After all that, and it was still dieseling, then I'd think about a hotspot inside...
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1966 109 5 door wagon 300Tdi "spermaceti fueled"
1994 RRC LeWiB "ruining the air behind me"
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  #25  
Old September 4th, 2013, 12:33 PM
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Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
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Sounds like we need a wrenching session. Email or PM me and we can figure something out. I have some frame horns for Dan P.R. too.
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  #26  
Old September 4th, 2013, 01:05 PM
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Dan Prasada-Rao
1963, 109 Station Wagon
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I'm trying to talk Matthew in to bringing the 88 out to the cove for Conclave. I'm hoping to make it out there as well but it may just be for a day trip.
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  #27  
Old September 9th, 2013, 07:13 AM
mgyip
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Matthew
1972/Series 3 88"
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Finally had a chance to do some diagnostics - cleaned/replaced the fuel filters, built a heat shield for the carb and ran some fuel system cleaner thru the motor. The filters were filthy and the fuel system cleaner has decimated the mosquito population at my house!!

The good news is that the filters made a difference - the engine no longer runs out of fuel at full throttle. The bad news is that it still won't restart hot until it cools down BUT the problem isn't the carburetor. The fuel bowl was full at the pump but when cranking the engine, no fuel was coming thru the line to the carburetor. After pouring water on the fuel pump and starting the LR on starting fluid, it fired up and ran - the first time, without cooling the pump, it started and ran but died after a minute or so.

Time to rebuild the pump and look at installing an electric pump.
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  #28  
Old September 9th, 2013, 07:37 AM
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Steve Maietta
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Sounds like the hot starting issue commonly referred to as vapor lock. . As far as I can tell it's pretty normal, mine does it too, but it will start after 3-4 seconds of cranking and a pump or two of the pedal. Check to see that the accelerator pump is working (engine off, look down the carb and pull the throttle linkage, you should see a squirt of fuel shoot in and down the carb) With as much crud as you had in your fuel system it might be clogged. This extra boost of fuel helps it get started when all the pump is doing is pushing against fumes (that pesky vapor lock condition)

~Steve
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  #29  
Old September 9th, 2013, 07:54 AM
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Charles Galpin
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Yeah mine has the same issue and either pumping the pedal or using some choke seems to help.

I'm a bit surprised the water helped since the pump is mechanical but who knows..
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  #30  
Old September 9th, 2013, 09:35 AM
mgyip
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Matthew
1972/Series 3 88"
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Fortunately, I was visiting a friend who is a carburetor expert when the 88 failed last night - granted, his experience is with 4 and 6 cylinder VW boxer motors but he has a few decades of experience with carbs including his home-made Hudson Hornet turbo running an SU from a Jag.

Initially we thought it was vapor lock which was my original thought as well. The symptoms were certainly correct - engine gets warm, heat soaks and viola, it quits running until it cools off. Then the symptoms started to change - the engine would run out of fuel (sputtering) but I could "pull" more fuel thru the system by downshifting and effectively jump starting the engine (at 40 mph!!). I could also pump the pedal and that would dump fuel into the carb for a few seconds before it ran out of fuel again so it's evident that no fuel is getting to the carb.

Most likely, the fuel pump diaphragm has a problem - dirty or torn. When it's cold (and the fuel isn't evaporating b/c of the alcohol content), it pumps fine but when the pump gets hot (heat soak from the block), it can't pump fuel into the line. I pulled the line at the carb and cranked the motor - no liquid to be seen. I suggested using a match to test for vapor but was, oddly, turned down.

Yes, it's a strange issue but I seem to be the king of "Gee, we've NEVER seen that happen before".
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  #31  
Old September 9th, 2013, 09:36 AM
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Charles Galpin
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It certainly can't hurt to rebuild the pump. I should probably do mine.
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  #32  
Old October 14th, 2013, 10:05 AM
mgyip
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Matthew
1972/Series 3 88"
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Back from the land of Dead Threads...

Spoke with Trevor about the problem and his reply was immediate - "I've had that happen before - it sounds like a pin-hole in the fuel pump diaphragm." I ordered a replacement fuel pump which took a whopping 10 minutes to install despite the placement (just out of the reach of my short fat arms).

That fixed the problem!!! It still has some cold-start issues (crank the motor for a while to move fuel into the carb) but I'm hoping that will go away when I get around to rebuilding the carb. The engine sounds better and has much more power (or as much power as a 2.25L 4-cylinder designed in the 50s can truly provide). Best is that even when blazing hot, it fires up without a hitch - no more "no start" or "start, run for 2 minutes and then no-start" issues.

Granted, the ambient temps haven't been in the 100s like this past summer BUT I did use the Landy last weekend (Fri and Sat) at Summit Point without an issue. I ran it from the paddock to T5 (about 1 mile) at low speeds, watched a race (45 min) and drove back - it hot-started fine without any complaints.

Thanks to all for the advice and suggestions.
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