Series Gear Case, SN+A vs SN+E - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Series Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old September 23rd, 2015, 03:20 PM
73S3BLIMEY's Avatar
73S3BLIMEY
Status: Offline
Steve LaHue
1973 LR S3 88
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Colorado City, CO
Posts: 18
Angry Series Gear Case, SN+A vs SN+E

I bought a "refurbished" case from a vendor in England. My old case SN ended in A.
The "refurbished" case not only filthy but with old parts attached to the hole sizes "checked" for wear case, SN ends in E.
I can see the reverse shaft hole lacks a key slot. My reverse shaft seems bigger on the fat end.
Their response to my comment on receiving a filthy case and not sure how it could possibly be refurbished was, I was darn lucky they were out there so I could buy a case from someone as these suffix A cases were hard to find. I could also pay reverse shipping and people are lined up to buy these. Long story short the message I got was "F you".
They will not respond to my question as to the comparability of these 2 cases so I don't feel real lucky that they are in business.

My question is: If I put a suffix " B on" reverse shaft and I imagine a suffix " B on" reverse gear in the case, will this work with the rest of my internals?

It is very frustrating that some of the British suppliers seem to know we probably will not send things back so they feel no shame when they put it to us.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old September 23rd, 2015, 09:32 PM
73S3BLIMEY's Avatar
73S3BLIMEY
Status: Offline
Steve LaHue
1973 LR S3 88
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Colorado City, CO
Posts: 18
Cool Land Rover Repeats Gearbox Suffix Letters

You old heads probably know this but it was news to me.
The supplier responded.
Land Rover Series 2 and 2A used Suffixes A thru E. And bless their heart started over again with the Series 3. So when one asks for a Suffix A transmission you should also say Series 3 Suffix A with full 1st and 2cd syncros. So the Land Rover alphabet is A-B-C-D-E-A-B...
And apparently Land Rover Series 3 Suffix A transmissions are rare.
God Bless Land Rover and my ability to unknowingly buy the oddest of the oddest.
I am thinking one might be able to make a drill the reverse shaft hole larger and cut a slot in to hold the key. Any thoughts on this and other things needed modification?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old September 23rd, 2015, 10:13 PM
airbornrover's Avatar
airbornrover
Status: Offline
William Skidmore
SIII 109 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Land by parkway and 33
Posts: 1,882
Didnt know about the repeating suffixes. You might find more info on lrfaq, guns&rovers, TerriAnns website. There might be other differences between the suffixes you have.
__________________
Quote:
Just to be clear, i was not bragging. i was calling you a pussy. Ren Ching
There is nothing as permanent as a temporary fix. JSBriggs
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old September 23rd, 2015, 10:22 PM
rdavisinva's Avatar
rdavisinva
Status: Offline
Robert Davis
N/A
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 6,813
I read your posts, but from the title and the first post could not tell what you were talking about.
The word case led me to at first believe you were asking about a transfer case, which also have a letter suffix.

Obviously you MUST be specific as a Series II & IIA transmission is very different from a Series III transmission.
When ordering a transmission (often called a main gearbox in UK), you have to specify if you want a Series II, IIA transmission or a Series III transmission.
I am puzzled as to if you specifically ordered a Series II & IIA transmission suffix A or a Series III transmission Suffix A.
If you just ordered a "suffix A transmission", the vendor should have asked you if it was a Series II & IIA or Series III you were after.
Series II & IIA Suffix A transmissions are rare in today's marketplace, but I don't know how many people are lined up to buy them.
I bet I have 20 or more series transmissions.
__________________
RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old September 24th, 2015, 12:50 AM
73S3BLIMEY's Avatar
73S3BLIMEY
Status: Offline
Steve LaHue
1973 LR S3 88
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Colorado City, CO
Posts: 18
Sorry for the miss communication. To me a gear box or a transmission is made of a case holding gears.

My first contact with the supplier I indicated it was a 73 Series iii and wanted to know how they check out their used cases. The main shaft bearing holder at the back of the gear box had spun in the case so I wanted to make sure they checked that diameter. The said they did and I ordered the following per their information. Land Rover Series iii part book shows this part number as being correct.
Supplier's Description
MAIN GEARBOX CASE TO SUFFIX A
Part number:606881
Applicable Models:
Land Rover Series 2a,a-e gearbox models to suffix A(series 3)
Land Rover Series 1 Ton models.

The casting mark on my case says 576653 CA VF which another blog says is a Suffix A or E.
So any thoughts on what the disconnect is?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old September 24th, 2015, 07:49 AM
rdavisinva's Avatar
rdavisinva
Status: Offline
Robert Davis
N/A
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 6,813
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73S3BLIMEY View Post
Sorry for the miss communication. To me a gear box or a transmission is made of a case holding gears.

My first contact with the supplier I indicated it was a 73 Series iii and wanted to know how they check out their used cases. The main shaft bearing holder at the back of the gear box had spun in the case so I wanted to make sure they checked that diameter. The said they did and I ordered the following per their information. Land Rover Series iii part book shows this part number as being correct.
Supplier's Description
MAIN GEARBOX CASE TO SUFFIX A
Part number:606881
Applicable Models:
Land Rover Series 2a,a-e gearbox models to suffix A(series 3)
Land Rover Series 1 Ton models.

The casting mark on my case says 576653 CA VF which another blog says is a Suffix A or E.
So any thoughts on what the disconnect is?
You actually ordered a Series II, IIA transmission..
You should ignore the parts list and just explain what it is you want in common Land Rover UK terms.
While most gears are inside a case, you need to use common terminology.
We have a transmission and a transfer case.
The transmission is in the front and the transfer case is in the rear.
The transmission is a 4 speed and bolts to the engine.
The transfer case has hi-lo and high 4WD/2WD selection and bolts to the rear of the transmission.

If you use the word "case", people will think you are ignorant and assume you are referring the transfer case, regardless of how you currently think.

So it's 4 speed transmission and 2 speed transfercase.

If you want a series 3 transmission you have to order a series 3 transmission and Rover Series 2a,a-e gearbox models to suffix A is NOT a series 3 transmission regardless what you had in ().

Also in the Land Rover world the term gearbox is synonymous with transmission and transfer box is synonymous with transfercase.

Hope this helps... sorry for your mix up, I know it is an expensive mistake.
__________________
RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old September 28th, 2015, 04:56 PM
Ren Ching's Avatar
Ren Ching
Status: Offline
Skinny Pete
'84 90 "Yamelo"/'88 RRC "Chewbacca"
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Downtown
Posts: 4,696
Registry
Hey Robert

Get the wax outta yer ears. The guy ordered JUST the case.

I gathered that from the get-go.

Series III suffix A cases are identical AFAIK to the Series IIa cases. Some very early cases would have a dipstick and a removeable fill cap in the shift lever cover.

Later SIII boxes used a different reverse gear setup which necessitated changes to the case.

That said, it sounds like the OP's original trans had the wrong serial number on it. IIRC the serial numbers are stamped on the top cover, which should always stay with the case as they are align bored as a unit. But if you have a keyed reverse shaft that is a post suffix-A sIII feature and laso not lilely to be original to your 73 truck.

Best bet is to count teeth on the 1st gear as I recall that will tell you what suffix you really have and get you the correct case.





Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
You actually ordered a Series II, IIA transmission..
You should ignore the parts list and just explain what it is you want in common Land Rover UK terms.
While most gears are inside a case, you need to use common terminology.
We have a transmission and a transfer case.
The transmission is in the front and the transfer case is in the rear.
The transmission is a 4 speed and bolts to the engine.
The transfer case has hi-lo and high 4WD/2WD selection and bolts to the rear of the transmission.

If you use the word "case", people will think you are ignorant and assume you are referring the transfer case, regardless of how you currently think.

So it's 4 speed transmission and 2 speed transfercase.

If you want a series 3 transmission you have to order a series 3 transmission and Rover Series 2a,a-e gearbox models to suffix A is NOT a series 3 transmission regardless what you had in ().

Also in the Land Rover world the term gearbox is synonymous with transmission and transfer box is synonymous with transfercase.

Hope this helps... sorry for your mix up, I know it is an expensive mistake.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Present:
1960 SII 109"- "Red Square"
1984 90 Tdi- "Yamelo"
1988 RRC- "Chewbacca"
1987 RRC- "Chewy 2"
2008 RRS SC- "The Supersofa"

Past:
1959 SII 88"- "The Little Green Beastie" last seen in NY
1972 SIII 88"- "GreenHELL" now in NC
1988 90 "Eric the Half a Bee" half a truck, sold for parts
1991 RRC- never got a name- long since recycled
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old September 30th, 2015, 04:42 PM
73S3BLIMEY's Avatar
73S3BLIMEY
Status: Offline
Steve LaHue
1973 LR S3 88
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Colorado City, CO
Posts: 18
S3 Gearbox

Glad to see someone else using the word case. Hate to think professor rdavisinva will now think you are ignorant too.

From what I can research I think the case and top are correct for a Series 3 suffix A.
The reverse gear set up is different. When I put the reverse shaft and gear in the Suffix F case my reverse gear which has a bushing not a needle bearing, is too big causing the adjacent shaft to be miss aligned.

Back to one of my previous posts, The gearbox, the gearbox SN, the transfer case and the output housing have USA stamped boldly somewhere on them. I still wonder if somehow this plays into the disconnect. Were the NAS Series 3 equipped with some different than standard parts?
Maybe LR was using the US market as a test bed / proving ground.

I could not come to an agreement with the supplier on who should pay for what and the way things were going I was not 100% sure the next case would be correct and it was going to cost me a pretty penny to find out.

I will be using my original case and the new bearing holder seems much tighter than the original one. So I will hope for the best.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old September 30th, 2015, 07:24 PM
Ren Ching's Avatar
Ren Ching
Status: Offline
Skinny Pete
'84 90 "Yamelo"/'88 RRC "Chewbacca"
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Downtown
Posts: 4,696
Registry
Professor Davis and I are very good friends so I'm sure my ignorance is already acknowledged.

So, you have the early style bushing-ed reverse gear and the reverse gear shaft is a light press fit into the case, correct?

IIRC the only thing keeping the shaft in place is the interferecne fit in the alloy case and the presence of the transfer box behind it.

does that sound like what you have?

Loctite has a bearing retaining compound, get everything nice and clean and put some of that around the housing.

Also, if you replace the rear mainshaft bearing with a sealed one, you can pull out the seal on the transmission side and it will help keep oil from migrating into the transfer box

Quote:
Originally Posted by 73S3BLIMEY View Post
Glad to see someone else using the word case. Hate to think professor rdavisinva will now think you are ignorant too.

------
I will be using my original case and the new bearing holder seems much tighter than the original one. So I will hope for the best.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Present:
1960 SII 109"- "Red Square"
1984 90 Tdi- "Yamelo"
1988 RRC- "Chewbacca"
1987 RRC- "Chewy 2"
2008 RRS SC- "The Supersofa"

Past:
1959 SII 88"- "The Little Green Beastie" last seen in NY
1972 SIII 88"- "GreenHELL" now in NC
1988 90 "Eric the Half a Bee" half a truck, sold for parts
1991 RRC- never got a name- long since recycled
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old September 30th, 2015, 08:00 PM
73S3BLIMEY's Avatar
73S3BLIMEY
Status: Offline
Steve LaHue
1973 LR S3 88
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Colorado City, CO
Posts: 18
73s3

Ah the special bond of friends who understand each other's weakness's.

Yes and no
Yes it is bushed
No, the shaft has a slot in the case that accepts a split pin in the butt of the shaft.
The butt of the shaft is oddly machined and has a larger diameter than the Suffix F case will accept.
Behind the lay shaft bearing race there are 2 holes that allow you to drive the race out. Not found on the Suffix F.
My parts match the Series 3 case.
I will be using the retaining compound on the new main shaft bearing holder whose original started this whole mess by seeming to have turned in the case.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Series Technical Discussions

Tags
series

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WTB series 1 ton transfer case (or 1.53:1 gear set for series tcase) cgalpin Wanted 3 March 7th, 2013 09:54 AM
Bearing removal on a t-case input gear TDI Guy Defender Technical Discussions 8 September 28th, 2009 07:06 AM
Tips on Swapping out the T-Case input Gear? LRNAD90 Defender Technical Discussions 2 April 23rd, 2009 05:14 PM
T-case popping out of gear Buckon37s Defender Technical Discussions 2 October 2nd, 2007 10:41 AM
300 TDI w Auto Gear box / Transfer Case SafariHP For Sale - Parts 0 January 2nd, 2007 09:23 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:36 AM.


Copyright