Series factory paint - what is it? - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Series Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old June 27th, 2014, 10:50 PM
nathanwind's Avatar
nathanwind
Status: Offline
Jason Lavender
88-90-127-LR3
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Saratoga NY
Posts: 8,743
Registry
Series factory paint - what is it?

I've spent a ton of time looking around and can't seem to get a straight answer. So Series paint is obviously single-stage....is it enamel or lacquer?
__________________
Jason Lavender
'71 Series IIA
'88 127 #F96 DKN
'94 90 NAS #324
'06 LR3 HSE

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

(10% discount for DSource members, use coupon code "D90")

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old June 27th, 2014, 10:53 PM
Wolf Fabrication's Avatar
Wolf Fabrication
Status: Offline
Sterling Archer
'08 D3
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oahu, HI
Posts: 7,453
Registry
I'd assume it's like early Jeeps - enamel.
__________________
"The most unreliable car in the world is the most reliable car in the world." -Jeremy Clarkson refering to the Range Rover


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Semper Fi!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old June 27th, 2014, 10:55 PM
nathanwind's Avatar
nathanwind
Status: Offline
Jason Lavender
88-90-127-LR3
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Saratoga NY
Posts: 8,743
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Fabrication View Post
I'd assume it's like early Jeeps - enamel.
Well that's what I thought...but some of what I found pointed to lacquer. Jury is still out. Where's Grumpy Bill to weigh in on this?
__________________
Jason Lavender
'71 Series IIA
'88 127 #F96 DKN
'94 90 NAS #324
'06 LR3 HSE

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

(10% discount for DSource members, use coupon code "D90")

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old June 28th, 2014, 06:14 PM
l.a.rover
Status: Offline
handy andy
73 Land Rover 88 Lightweight
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: boyle heights, ca.
Posts: 462
Registry
Series paint

basicly just plain enamel ....

Last time I painted a series truck I sanded it, primered with zinc chromate, and shot it with enamel mix hardnerm and reducer
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old June 28th, 2014, 09:05 PM
JohnBullsBollocks's Avatar
JohnBullsBollocks
Status: Offline
Don
1963 IIA 109
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 107
Registry
Paint - bad news ...

DuPont used to carry all of the Land Rover series colors in their Centari line. Unfortunately, they recently stopped making Centari and my local DuPont dealer was not helpful. Centari was a good, basic enamel. Glasurit (part of BASF) is still making Rover colors. Check your local area for a dealer. Expensive. That's where I have been getting my paints.

The main issue, as one of the other posters noted, is adhesion to aluminum/bare metal. Zinc Chromate was the preferred primer for old Rovers and even aircraft. It is now considered environmentally evil. No longer available. You will need to use self-etching primer to provide sufficient adhesion to the aluminum if you chose a modern paint. Modern urethane paints are very durable and shine well.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC00799.jpg
Views:	104
Size:	44.7 KB
ID:	97766  
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old June 28th, 2014, 10:29 PM
l.a.rover
Status: Offline
handy andy
73 Land Rover 88 Lightweight
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: boyle heights, ca.
Posts: 462
Registry
What?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBullsBollocks View Post

The main issue, as one of the other posters noted, is adhesion to aluminum/bare metal. Zinc Chromate was the preferred primer for old Rovers and even aircraft. It is now considered environmentally evil. No longer available. You will need to use self-etching primer to provide sufficient adhesion to the aluminum if you chose a modern paint. Modern urethane paints are very durable and shine well.
Zinc chromate is outlawed in Colorado too? I thought California only got rid of it.... That sucks
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old June 28th, 2014, 11:30 PM
JohnBullsBollocks's Avatar
JohnBullsBollocks
Status: Offline
Don
1963 IIA 109
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 107
Registry
Yea, it sucks ...

NESHAP is everywhere thanks to EPA. (National Emission Standards for Hazardous Air Pollutants). That's why so many shops are going to water-based products and other are simply closing up.

I have gotten away from primer problems by going to DTM (Direct To Metal) urethane coatings (BASF). You STILL need to use self-etching primer for areas of bodywork. Glazing putty for small dents and dings likes to have something to bite on. But, if your steel, zinc coated steel or aluminum is nice and smooth, you spray directly to metal without primer. Relatively new stuff. Under the right circumstances it can be a money saver for body shops. Most of the newer paints with the three part formula: paint, hardener and reducer contain Isocyanates. Proper breathing apparatus is ESSENTIAL!

On the other hand ... I've seen Landy's painted with a roller, brush and rattle-can! LOL!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old July 1st, 2014, 07:24 PM
nathanwind's Avatar
nathanwind
Status: Offline
Jason Lavender
88-90-127-LR3
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Saratoga NY
Posts: 8,743
Registry
I should have probably provided more clarification on the reason for my original question. So...I've got a tub that is going to be used as a replacement in the rebuild of my SIIA on galvy chassis. My truck is the "pastel green". And the replacement tub I have originally was too...until some chimp (what I believe to be) rattle can'd over it with a dark green.

I've tried thinly applying some stripper to remove the top layer - and it *sort* of works, but is affecting the paint underneath more than I want it to.

So...next round of thinking was:
1) try lacquer thinner, which would possibly remove the top layer and leave the bottom layer intact...IF the original paint is enamel and not lacquer.
2) try a buffer and some cutting compound to see if I can literally "buff" the top layer of paint off.

If none of the above works, I guess Plan C would be to strip & repaint. I have access to paint guns/etc, but would rather have a patina'd tub in the same color even if it didn't match perfectly than a freshly painted tub (it's a Series, so the worse it looks the better it looks in my opinion).

Now THAT said, any other bright ideas? Pics below, you can see the original paint coming through in spots that were covered by bolt-on galvy bits:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4292.jpg
Views:	96
Size:	85.1 KB
ID:	97941   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4293.jpg
Views:	90
Size:	61.0 KB
ID:	97942  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4294.jpg
Views:	92
Size:	61.6 KB
ID:	97943  
__________________
Jason Lavender
'71 Series IIA
'88 127 #F96 DKN
'94 90 NAS #324
'06 LR3 HSE

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

(10% discount for DSource members, use coupon code "D90")

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old July 1st, 2014, 07:30 PM
Jonesy's Avatar
Jonesy
Status: Offline
Craig
87 D110 (Ruby)
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 4,447
Registry
Jason on all the ones I have done I used the orange stripper. That removed the paint and left the factory primer. Yellow stuff I assume is chromate. Then I primed on top of that with rattle can self etching primer. Then painted with APS Towers cans of enamel 1K then put an acrylic clear on top. They all came out real well.
__________________
"The difference between stupidity and genius, is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old July 1st, 2014, 07:36 PM
nathanwind's Avatar
nathanwind
Status: Offline
Jason Lavender
88-90-127-LR3
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Saratoga NY
Posts: 8,743
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post
Jason on all the ones I have done I used the orange stripper. That removed the paint and left the factory primer. Yellow stuff I assume is chromate. Then I primed on top of that with rattle can self etching primer. Then painted with APS Towers cans of enamel 1K then put an acrylic clear on top. They all came out real well.
So this orange stripper of which you speak...I'm assuming it's like this:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Citristri...803T/100141801

I could try something more "gentle" than the stripper I was using, and put it on thin to see if it would potentially remove the crappy layer of rattle can, and possibly leave the original top-layer of paint.

I'm still thinking of trying to either buff it off, or lacquer thinner it off.
__________________
Jason Lavender
'71 Series IIA
'88 127 #F96 DKN
'94 90 NAS #324
'06 LR3 HSE

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

(10% discount for DSource members, use coupon code "D90")

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old July 1st, 2014, 08:54 PM
JohnBullsBollocks's Avatar
JohnBullsBollocks
Status: Offline
Don
1963 IIA 109
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 107
Registry
Best course of action ...

OK, I would recommend getting a spray bottle of clean water and a selection of wet/dry automotive sand paper. Put the paper on a good sanding block and, after wetting the wings/tub, start to sand. I wouldn't go any more coarse than say 500 grit to start. See what comes off. You can adjust accordingly. You are going to have to do this anyway if you repaint. Be sure to remove or tape off the galvanized bits. Do NOT use the chemical stripper unless you plan to remove ALL the paint down to the bare meta. And then you must THOROUGHLY clean the surfaces. Lacquer thinner will also cause problems. If the previous owners used a rattle can, it may well be enamel you will be dealing with.

Once you have wet sanded, you can asses the substrate. You can use self-etching primer on the bare metal areas. The advantage of this process is that you don't need to use self-etching primer everywhere. You can also fill dents and dings with bondo/glazing putty, etc. Again, you will wet, block sand until all areas are perfectly smooth. Then you can top coat in the Rover color you want. I grabbed this pic off the Internet. A guy had some pastel green made up by NAPA. A starting point for you.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	LR Pastel Green (1).jpg
Views:	96
Size:	89.4 KB
ID:	97950  
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old July 1st, 2014, 09:45 PM
Uncle Douglas's Avatar
Uncle Douglas
Status: Online
Doug Crowther
A defender in every driveway-motto
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gods Country- Central Virginia
Posts: 11,839
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
I've spent a ton of time looking around and can't seem to get a straight answer. So Series paint is obviously single-stage....is it enamel or lacquer?
Tempera

------ Follow up post added July 1st, 2014 09:46 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
So this orange stripper of which you speak...I'm assuming it's like this:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Citristri...803T/100141801

I could try something more "gentle" than the stripper I was using, and put it on thin to see if it would potentially remove the crappy layer of rattle can, and possibly leave the original top-layer of paint.

I'm still thinking of trying to either buff it off, or lacquer thinner it off.
acetone usually removes spray paints effectively
__________________
Good judgement comes from experience,experience comes from bad judgement.

Dividing Creek Imports
Worldwide Vehicle Shipment and Importation Service
Restoration & Modification work


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

410.693.1391


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old July 1st, 2014, 10:26 PM
nathanwind's Avatar
nathanwind
Status: Offline
Jason Lavender
88-90-127-LR3
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Saratoga NY
Posts: 8,743
Registry
I’m very probably the world’s most leading expert on ulcers. Proctology is my specialty.
__________________
Jason Lavender
'71 Series IIA
'88 127 #F96 DKN
'94 90 NAS #324
'06 LR3 HSE

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

(10% discount for DSource members, use coupon code "D90")

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old July 1st, 2014, 10:33 PM
Jonesy's Avatar
Jonesy
Status: Offline
Craig
87 D110 (Ruby)
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 4,447
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
So this orange stripper of which you speak...I'm assuming it's like this:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Citristri...803T/100141801

I could try something more "gentle" than the stripper I was using, and put it on thin to see if it would potentially remove the crappy layer of rattle can, and possibly leave the original top-layer of paint.

I'm still thinking of trying to either buff it off, or lacquer thinner it off.
You got it, much easier than your buffing idea
__________________
"The difference between stupidity and genius, is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old July 2nd, 2014, 12:39 AM
Ren Ching's Avatar
Ren Ching
Status: Offline
Skinny Pete
'84 90 "Yamelo"/'88 RRC "Chewbacca"
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Downtown
Posts: 4,696
Registry
have you tried pressure washing?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old July 2nd, 2014, 12:51 AM
nathanwind's Avatar
nathanwind
Status: Offline
Jason Lavender
88-90-127-LR3
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Saratoga NY
Posts: 8,743
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Ching View Post
have you tried pressure washing?
Shit...now THAT is interesting. I've got an industrial Simpson press washer here actually. Maybe I'll start there!
__________________
Jason Lavender
'71 Series IIA
'88 127 #F96 DKN
'94 90 NAS #324
'06 LR3 HSE

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

(10% discount for DSource members, use coupon code "D90")

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old July 3rd, 2014, 05:22 AM
JohnBullsBollocks's Avatar
JohnBullsBollocks
Status: Offline
Don
1963 IIA 109
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 107
Registry
That works too!

I guess it all depends on how professional you want your finish. If you use the chemical strip, then you can pressure wash the bubbled/loosened paint. You will still have a few "Klingons", but you can get them with steel wool or the sanding process I described above. But remember, painting bare aluminum requires self-etching primer since zinc chromate is not available. The use of alodine, used in aircraft painting for aluminum, is typically not an option either.

To answer your earlier question, you can generally paint enamel over lacquer but not vice-versa. Lacquer solvents will soften and dissolve enamel finishes and can cause cracking, flaking and other complications. So, with a 50 year old vehicle, you just don't know what's going on below. You either completely strip to bare metal or use enamel over a properly prepared substrate. Paint formulations have changed significantly over the past few decades. Manufacturers are still changing the types of hardeners and reducers used for any given product. Putting one finish over another can lead to unexpected consequences! So, there you have it.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old July 3rd, 2014, 06:36 AM
o2batsea's Avatar
o2batsea
Status: Offline
Bill Adams
66 109 sw 94 lwb
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: kensington md
Posts: 6,503
Registry
If it were me, I'd just scuff it and paint. Assuming the rattle can paint is sticking, sand with 220 all over, then a couple coats of epoxy primer followed by a couple coats of Nason. Should do the trick.
Alternately, you could try to keep the original paint. That would mean many hours careful wet sanding just cutting thru the enamel, saving the factory paint as it reveals. However since the original is an unknown you cant be sure it isn't a wasted effort. It might be worth a try in a small area, and if it's too much work or the paint's no good then you aren't in too deep.
I went with the nuclear option, taking the body parts to the chem strip place near Andrews. They get all the paint out of every corner and crease. This leaves the original aluminum acid wash intact, so you need only prime and paint. Expensive but you get a factory clean surface and you keep your weekends. If you are doing this chore at home this option becomes very attractive when weighed against all the issues surrounding the labor, chemicals and mess of it.
__________________
Bill Adams

1966 109 5 door wagon 300Tdi "spermaceti fueled"
1994 RRC LeWiB "ruining the air behind me"
1968 2A 88

All my troubles are Rover
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old July 8th, 2014, 08:54 AM
Jonesy's Avatar
Jonesy
Status: Offline
Craig
87 D110 (Ruby)
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 4,447
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBullsBollocks View Post
but you can get them with steel wool
DO NOT under any circumstances use steel wool on the truck - anywhere actually.

Steel wool leaves little pieces on itself, caught under rivet holes, in places you can never get to...and guess what it does after a while - yep RUST!!!

Use sandpaper, or I think there is a brass wool or something else...but not Steel Wool Jason.
__________________
"The difference between stupidity and genius, is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Series Technical Discussions

Tags
ac, factory, paint, series

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NAS 110-to paint or not to paint WhiteD90 Misc. Chit-Chat 52 October 8th, 2009 12:29 PM
To Paint or Not To Paint Wheels? highmile Misc. Chit-Chat 4 March 18th, 2009 05:53 PM
Paint Codes and Paint Job Advice?? Shake Defender Technical Discussions 7 December 14th, 2006 06:24 AM
skid plates, jate rings, tires, factory steps, factory sills draaronr For Sale - Parts 4 September 21st, 2006 09:47 PM
Paint Color/ Paint Code little black duck Defender Technical Discussions 3 March 16th, 2005 05:30 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:49 PM.


Copyright