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Series factory paint - what is it?

16K views 18 replies 8 participants last post by  Jonesy 
#1 ·
I've spent a ton of time looking around and can't seem to get a straight answer. So Series paint is obviously single-stage....is it enamel or lacquer?
 
#5 · (Edited)
Paint - bad news ...

DuPont used to carry all of the Land Rover series colors in their Centari line. Unfortunately, they recently stopped making Centari and my local DuPont dealer was not helpful. Centari was a good, basic enamel. Glasurit (part of BASF) is still making Rover colors. Check your local area for a dealer. Expensive. That's where I have been getting my paints.

The main issue, as one of the other posters noted, is adhesion to aluminum/bare metal. Zinc Chromate was the preferred primer for old Rovers and even aircraft. It is now considered environmentally evil. No longer available. You will need to use self-etching primer to provide sufficient adhesion to the aluminum if you chose a modern paint. Modern urethane paints are very durable and shine well.
 

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#6 ·
What?

The main issue, as one of the other posters noted, is adhesion to aluminum/bare metal. Zinc Chromate was the preferred primer for old Rovers and even aircraft. It is now considered environmentally evil. No longer available. You will need to use self-etching primer to provide sufficient adhesion to the aluminum if you chose a modern paint. Modern urethane paints are very durable and shine well.
Zinc chromate is outlawed in Colorado too? I thought California only got rid of it.... That sucks:eek:
 
#7 ·
Yea, it sucks ...

NESHAP is everywhere thanks to EPA. (National Emission Standards for Hazardous Air Pollutants). That's why so many shops are going to water-based products and other are simply closing up.

I have gotten away from primer problems by going to DTM (Direct To Metal) urethane coatings (BASF). You STILL need to use self-etching primer for areas of bodywork. Glazing putty for small dents and dings likes to have something to bite on. But, if your steel, zinc coated steel or aluminum is nice and smooth, you spray directly to metal without primer. Relatively new stuff. Under the right circumstances it can be a money saver for body shops. Most of the newer paints with the three part formula: paint, hardener and reducer contain Isocyanates. Proper breathing apparatus is ESSENTIAL!

On the other hand ... I've seen Landy's painted with a roller, brush and rattle-can! LOL!
 
#8 · (Edited)
I should have probably provided more clarification on the reason for my original question. So...I've got a tub that is going to be used as a replacement in the rebuild of my SIIA on galvy chassis. My truck is the "pastel green". And the replacement tub I have originally was too...until some chimp (what I believe to be) rattle can'd over it with a dark green.

I've tried thinly applying some stripper to remove the top layer - and it *sort* of works, but is affecting the paint underneath more than I want it to.

So...next round of thinking was:
1) try lacquer thinner, which would possibly remove the top layer and leave the bottom layer intact...IF the original paint is enamel and not lacquer.
2) try a buffer and some cutting compound to see if I can literally "buff" the top layer of paint off.

If none of the above works, I guess Plan C would be to strip & repaint. I have access to paint guns/etc, but would rather have a patina'd tub in the same color even if it didn't match perfectly than a freshly painted tub (it's a Series, so the worse it looks the better it looks in my opinion).

Now THAT said, any other bright ideas? Pics below, you can see the original paint coming through in spots that were covered by bolt-on galvy bits:
 

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#9 ·
Jason on all the ones I have done I used the orange stripper. That removed the paint and left the factory primer. Yellow stuff I assume is chromate. Then I primed on top of that with rattle can self etching primer. Then painted with APS Towers cans of enamel 1K then put an acrylic clear on top. They all came out real well.
 
#10 ·
So this orange stripper of which you speak...I'm assuming it's like this:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Citristr...and-Varnish-Stripping-Gel-HCG73803T/100141801

I could try something more "gentle" than the stripper I was using, and put it on thin to see if it would potentially remove the crappy layer of rattle can, and possibly leave the original top-layer of paint.

I'm still thinking of trying to either buff it off, or lacquer thinner it off.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Best course of action ...

OK, I would recommend getting a spray bottle of clean water and a selection of wet/dry automotive sand paper. Put the paper on a good sanding block and, after wetting the wings/tub, start to sand. I wouldn't go any more coarse than say 500 grit to start. See what comes off. You can adjust accordingly. You are going to have to do this anyway if you repaint. Be sure to remove or tape off the galvanized bits. Do NOT use the chemical stripper unless you plan to remove ALL the paint down to the bare meta. And then you must THOROUGHLY clean the surfaces. Lacquer thinner will also cause problems. If the previous owners used a rattle can, it may well be enamel you will be dealing with.

Once you have wet sanded, you can asses the substrate. You can use self-etching primer on the bare metal areas. The advantage of this process is that you don't need to use self-etching primer everywhere. You can also fill dents and dings with bondo/glazing putty, etc. Again, you will wet, block sand until all areas are perfectly smooth. Then you can top coat in the Rover color you want. I grabbed this pic off the Internet. A guy had some pastel green made up by NAPA. A starting point for you.
 

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#15 ·
have you tried pressure washing?
 
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#17 ·
That works too!

I guess it all depends on how professional you want your finish. If you use the chemical strip, then you can pressure wash the bubbled/loosened paint. You will still have a few "Klingons", but you can get them with steel wool or the sanding process I described above. But remember, painting bare aluminum requires self-etching primer since zinc chromate is not available. The use of alodine, used in aircraft painting for aluminum, is typically not an option either.

To answer your earlier question, you can generally paint enamel over lacquer but not vice-versa. Lacquer solvents will soften and dissolve enamel finishes and can cause cracking, flaking and other complications. So, with a 50 year old vehicle, you just don't know what's going on below. You either completely strip to bare metal or use enamel over a properly prepared substrate. Paint formulations have changed significantly over the past few decades. Manufacturers are still changing the types of hardeners and reducers used for any given product. Putting one finish over another can lead to unexpected consequences! So, there you have it.
 
#19 ·
but you can get them with steel wool
DO NOT under any circumstances use steel wool on the truck - anywhere actually.

Steel wool leaves little pieces on itself, caught under rivet holes, in places you can never get to...and guess what it does after a while - yep RUST!!!

Use sandpaper, or I think there is a brass wool or something else...but not Steel Wool Jason.
 
#18 · (Edited)
If it were me, I'd just scuff it and paint. Assuming the rattle can paint is sticking, sand with 220 all over, then a couple coats of epoxy primer followed by a couple coats of Nason. Should do the trick.
Alternately, you could try to keep the original paint. That would mean many hours careful wet sanding just cutting thru the enamel, saving the factory paint as it reveals. However since the original is an unknown you cant be sure it isn't a wasted effort. It might be worth a try in a small area, and if it's too much work or the paint's no good then you aren't in too deep.
I went with the nuclear option, taking the body parts to the chem strip place near Andrews. They get all the paint out of every corner and crease. This leaves the original aluminum acid wash intact, so you need only prime and paint. Expensive but you get a factory clean surface and you keep your weekends. If you are doing this chore at home this option becomes very attractive when weighed against all the issues surrounding the labor, chemicals and mess of it.
 
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