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  #21  
Old December 9th, 2010, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1962siia88 View Post
I am using a chevy bellhousing and 11" clutch. The only adapter will be between the tcase and np435. I was originally trying to go with an atlas/gm 5 cyl engine and the stock series gearbox and tcase. I was making an adapter for that but got greedy for horsepower and technical support and switched to the v8.

Daniel
Smart move. I'm not saying that you plan isn't a good one, but I have a suspicion that you will, once you get it out there on the road, wish that you had put in something other than the Rover T Case.

Quote:
Aha! So that's what those are called...the push/pull cables, right?
Teleflex Morse 4300 series cables. Jamestown Distributors is my go to supplier of all things boaty
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1966 109 5 door wagon 300Tdi "spermaceti fueled"
1994 RRC LeWiB "ruining the air behind me"
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  #22  
Old December 9th, 2010, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
Teleflex Morse 4300 series cables. Jamestown Distributors is my go to supplier of all things boaty
Well, you learn sumpthin' new every day.

Now I can stop referring to them as "...you know, those push/pull boaty cables"

Thanks,

KAA
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  #23  
Old December 9th, 2010, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
Smart move. I'm not saying that you plan isn't a good one, but I have a suspicion that you will, once you get it out there on the road, wish that you had put in something other than the Rover T Case.



Teleflex Morse 4300 series cables. Jamestown Distributors is my go to supplier of all things boaty
Well the good news is that I'm not building this rig as an all around do everything truck. It's job will be to off road well and get to the trail efficiently. I'm also sitting on my dedicated family truckster. It's next in line and it will be geared for better road driving. It's a 1969 109" sw sitting on a 110 chassis. It's getting a similar engine but will get a 4l60e transmission and Timm's blingy new transfer case. It will cruise freeway speeds plus all day! That will require swmbo to be appeased somehow but I'm working on that too.

Daniel
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  #24  
Old December 9th, 2010, 02:33 PM
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What axle upgrades are you going to make to handle the V-8?
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  #25  
Old December 9th, 2010, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Trying not to excessively clutter up Daniels thread, but what do you feel is wrong with the series Tcase? I haven't seen an issue with either durability or noise.

-Jeff
For SOA conversion, the forward position of the front output flange might make for a too steep angle. The Series case has virtually no aftermarket support for lower gearing. Other TCs have a wide variety of gearing options. They also leak like crazy. The shift lever is weird.
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1966 109 5 door wagon 300Tdi "spermaceti fueled"
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1968 2A 88

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  #26  
Old December 9th, 2010, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outfield View Post
What axle upgrades are you going to make to handle the V-8?
I'm going to run the stock (well stock 95 rrc ) axles until I break them. The rear will have an ARB and the front will have a 4 pinion p38 diff. Running 4.7 ring and pinions.



"For SOA conversion, the forward position of the front output flange might make for a too steep angle. The Series case has virtually no aftermarket support for lower gearing. Other TCs have a wide variety of gearing options. They also leak like crazy. The shift lever is weird."


Well we'll see. I'm not doing anything that hasn't been done before successfully. As far as gearing goes I'm more worried about being too low than anything. From what I can tell my 1st gear low final drive ratio will be 73:1 approximately. My high range will allow freeway speeds but I'll be running somewhere around 3k rpms plus, which is why I want an overdrive.

Thanks for all the input folks, and sure Jeff bring that 100" down here, oh wait, I'm out of room, sorry!

I got the engine home today! Had to drive to Sacramento and back and man that thing is heavy. My poor engine hoist is tired and used to 4 bangers.

I attached a few pics from today. My drive way is too narrow to get a good shot of the wheel in the wheel well but I tried.
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  #27  
Old December 10th, 2010, 08:27 AM
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Bill, have you done a conversion before or are you still just at the planning stage? I'd say Timm Cooper has a pretty damn good rep as to what works.

Daniel,
Swapping the series 4.70 R&P over to 24 spline stock carriers is just creating extra work for yourself, you will quickly have issues. I just broke a 4.70 front R&P (it was in there when I bought the set of pre built ARB's) with my little 100 hp, 180ftlbs diesel and I while I wheel the heck out of it, I do not beat on it or get it hopping. My rear 4.75 is holding up and I have a spare reverse cut 4.75 to put in the front next week. Build your diffs once and be done. Lucky8 has good prices on the Ashcroft gear sets.

KB
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  #28  
Old December 10th, 2010, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Bill, have you done a conversion before or are you still just at the planning stage? I'd say Timm Cooper has a pretty damn good rep as to what works.
Yes I have a pretty whopping huge IH 345/T19/Dana 20 mess in the 109 as of now. Power steering and a big rad.

Agree that Timm's stuff works for him. He doesn't have the final answer in Series V8 conversion tech. I'll just say that his builds are not my cup of tea.

While I have been planning to put a TDi in it, I already have a Ford 302 (now308) that is brand new and just sitting in the barn. It was gonna go in a now-defunct jet boat project. It will go in the 109 with an NP435 and the only question mark now is whether I will re use the Dana 20 or try to adapt the R380. I think I have the R380 question worked out so if I can make it happen I'll do that. I am going to a coiler chassis, so I won't have the same issues with the SOA conversion.
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1966 109 5 door wagon 300Tdi "spermaceti fueled"
1994 RRC LeWiB "ruining the air behind me"
1968 2A 88

All my troubles are Rover
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  #29  
Old December 10th, 2010, 08:40 AM
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I didn't realize that Bill and have new respect for your opinions. There are so many guys with a few parts, fewer dollars and big dreams wanting a conversion out there. Glad to see you are not one of them.
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  #30  
Old December 10th, 2010, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
My high range will allow freeway speeds but I'll be running somewhere around 3k rpms plus, which is why I want an overdrive.
Maybe an Ashcroft "high ratio" case? It's supposed to be a little better on the highway and with that lump you will have plenty of "go" even with a taller high. 3 grand at speed will be rather annoying.

------ Follow up post added December 10th, 2010 09:03 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNY View Post
I didn't realize that Bill and have new respect for your opinions. There are so many guys with a few parts, fewer dollars and big dreams wanting a conversion out there. Glad to see you are not one of them.
Yeah well I REALLY want to make it a double cab 127 Hi Cap drop side hybrid coiler so I can haul boats and Kayaks. Any assistance greatly appreciated.
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1966 109 5 door wagon 300Tdi "spermaceti fueled"
1994 RRC LeWiB "ruining the air behind me"
1968 2A 88

All my troubles are Rover
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  #31  
Old December 10th, 2010, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNY View Post
Bill, have you done a conversion before or are you still just at the planning stage? I'd say Timm Cooper has a pretty damn good rep as to what works.

Daniel,
Swapping the series 4.70 R&P over to 24 spline stock carriers is just creating extra work for yourself, you will quickly have issues. I just broke a 4.70 front R&P (it was in there when I bought the set of pre built ARB's) with my little 100 hp, 180ftlbs diesel and I while I wheel the heck out of it, I do not beat on it or get it hopping. My rear 4.75 is holding up and I have a spare reverse cut 4.75 to put in the front next week. Build your diffs once and be done. Lucky8 has good prices on the Ashcroft gear sets.

KB
Thanks for the advice. The rear diff will be ARB with great basin 4.7 gears. The front carrier is planned to be a p38 4 pinion carrier with the later style s3 ring and pinion, but maybe I should just go large as you suggest. I agree with do it once do it right for sure.

Daniel

------ Follow up post added December 10th, 2010 09:57 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
Maybe an Ashcroft "high ratio" case? It's supposed to be a little better on the highway and with that lump you will have plenty of "go" even with a taller high. 3 grand at speed will be rather annoying.

I am definitely considering the hrtc as an option. I've conversed with Teriann W. who has one in her 109 dormy. The gearing is really tough to decide on especially since I dont have much experience with the different options. I know I want a low crawling ratio and I know I want freeway speeds. I also know my budget and that I may have to do things in stages.

Going with the stock tc and then adding the od a bit later is currently my favorite option. Of course if the right deal presents itself I will jump on it. I dont think I'd go too far wrong with either of these two options.

So my trans should be here on Tues, then I get to figure out which bellhousing I need and can go buy my flywheel and clutch and start figuring out how all this will fit in my little 88".

Thanks again everyone for good info.

Daniel
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  #32  
Old December 10th, 2010, 06:27 PM
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Whatever you end up with you are going to have a very short high angle rear prop shaft. I use a TW double cardon shaft. They used to make them with an aluminum adaptor to the transfer case but that adaptor was made for an LT 230, it was too big for a series output. I made some measurements and Tom Woods turned down one of the adaptors so I could mate the double cardon end with the output on my HRTC. Not sure if the new stuff he uses will work for you or not but I suspect some minor machining may be neccessary.
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  #33  
Old December 10th, 2010, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
Comments/observations:

It looks like you got the cable throttle version, so that should be a bit cheaper/easier than the wire version.

Your passenger footwell looks a bit bare. What heater are you running?

LOVE the Jackmans BTW.

-Jeff
The 88" has always had the round smiths ankle burner. Works fine with the truck cab, but I'm considering a switch since I've already cut into my bulkhead. I've got a kodiak, but its going in the 109, I've also got the larger rectangular smiths recirc, and I've got a late 2a smiths forced air with the distribution box. I'm not going to decide which one I'm using until I know how the sheet metal is all going to come together on the bulkhead and tunnel.

Yes the engine has the mechanical pull for the TB. Much more straight forward. I've got the cable for it too. I am really glad I went this route instead of trying to make the electronic pedal look good in my cab.

I couldn't pass up the Jackmans. I also love crusty old subarus too(notice the lifted brat in some of my pics I bought a dead 109 from Lea Maggie last year after perusing his mega pile up outside of Reno. The Jackmans were there and I asked how much extra he wanted for them and he gave me my choice between them or the stock 109 wheels. Then I heard about the Les Schaub Tires super deal on powder coating wheels. Bling!


D

------ Follow up post added December 10th, 2010 04:22 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNY View Post
Whatever you end up with you are going to have a very short high angle rear prop shaft. I use a TW double cardon shaft. They used to make them with an aluminum adaptor to the transfer case but that adaptor was made for an LT 230, it was too big for a series output. I made some measurements and Tom Woods turned down one of the adaptors so I could mate the double cardon end with the output on my HRTC. Not sure if the new stuff he uses will work for you or not but I suspect some minor machining may be neccessary.
I have a good sized pile of various rover drive shafts stashed away. Timm is going to do something with them and new ujoints. I'm just going on faith that he will make them work. The front axle was set up with castor in mind and its all welded up so yes its going to have some steep angles. The rear axle is not welded yet. The perches are just setup waiting for the final location of my t case so I intend to point the rear pinion at the tcase and use a double cardon shaft if necessary.

I really appreciate all the input folks. Thanks very much.

Daniel
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  #34  
Old December 14th, 2010, 07:11 PM
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Hey all:

Not much news but I did receive my np435 yesterday. Looks good and is the wide ratio version so I'm going to have a low crawling gear. I have been trying to hash out my gearing but since I dont have any experience in this department I've been concerned about screwing stuff up. I've had conversations with several people at this point and have decided to go with the stock suffix A transfercase (because I have two of them sitting in my garage) and 4.14 ring and pinion. Also going to pony up for a front ARB as well since the 4.14 wont work with my p38 carrier.

This will give a low range first of 80:1 approx and will have me doing 66mph at 3k rpms in 4th gear high range. I will also buy the santana overdrive as soon as I find one and that will make freeway speed much more reasonable.

Any opinions welcome as I haven't bought the 4.14 gears yet, but intend to do so in the next day or so. Thanks.

Daniel

ps- yes my shop is a mess!
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  #35  
Old December 14th, 2010, 07:38 PM
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I'd go with the HRTC right from the get go. With the granny gear on that NP435 and the power at hand I think you will never really use 1st gear in lo range. An HRTC is still going to give you a crawl of around 64:1. My crawl is 41:1 and I don't hold back on the obstacles I'm willing to give a go and I only have a little 100hp/180lb diesel fourbanger. I've considered what you are thinking, having an earlier 2.89:1 series case and an overdrive but in reality I've gotten everywhere without it and the HRTC is quiet and simple. If I did it my crawl would go to 50:1 which would be great, I can't imagine having 64:1 never mind 80:1.

FYI for comparison a stock V8 90 with those diff gears would have a crawl of 46:1 with the comparativly anemic 3.9 motor
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  #36  
Old December 15th, 2010, 08:05 AM
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2WD transmission? How does that work? You aren't considering a divorced Series TC are you? How would that ever fit in an 88? Are you going to be able to drill and tap the gearbox case yourself? I guess Timm will provide the answer.
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  #37  
Old December 15th, 2010, 11:44 AM
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Hey Bill

Timm's adapter is a housing that bolts to both the trans and tcase. There's is a shaft inside the housing to transfer the power. I don't remember the exact dimensions but it adds a few inches to the length but does fit easily in an 88" and I can still run an overdrive too.



Regarding the hrtc I'm still on the fence. Nothing in my plan would preclude me from changing to it in the future and my low range would still be very low. I decided on the 4.14 gearing because it is the strongest gearing out there and combined with the arb's front and back seems like another part of this rig that will be bullet proof from the start. I most likely will have to wait a bit on buying an overdrive because of budget constraints so plenty of time to change my mind between od or hrtc.

Still have to figure out my high steering set up and which shocks I'm going to use and how they will be mounted. My goal is to be ready by mendo which is a ncal rover trip every April. Thanks all.

Daniel
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  #38  
Old December 15th, 2010, 12:37 PM
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I think you are making all the right choices and using a great combination of parts. My old 109 was setup very much like yours is, and the only issue I see is the high steer setup on a coiler axle. I made an arm that attached to the top pin, one caliper bolt, and the steering stop, and although I was sure that the arm would hold, I was always worried about breaking the knuckle as they are kind of thin and not designed for this type of load. This was 10 years ago and my metalworking skills are a lot better and I now think that my first design was rather crude, and could be improved upon, but the strength of the knuckle is kind of the main issue. I ended up switching to Toyota axles and now to a 101FC front end.

If you are going to do this, you can use a RHD swivel housing on the right side to lose the steering arm, and you can probably build a steering arm that ties into the top pin, one of the caliper bolts, and a variety of other bolt locations. Just try and spread the load out as much as possible, and perhaps carry a spare knuckle casting (just in case).

Although I was worried mine never failed, I didn't beat on it that hard but I broke plenty of other stuff.

I think the gearing will be spot on just as it is, the Santana is a great upgrade and will help with the big holes between the gears on the 4 speed (as opposed to a high range case), kind of like a gear splitter. )Plus an extra lever to play with.

I love the Jackmans too. I am building a set of jackman inspired 17s for my current project. If you can take a good photo of one of the wheels, dead on, from the side, I would appreciate it. I need to trace the outline through CAD to get the centers cut out on a CNC table.

Oh and one last thing - I hate to break it to you but unfortunately those AVM hubs are made out of recycled baby poo. They are going to explode or strip out. I would leave them off (although they sure are nice for controling vibrations).
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  #39  
Old December 15th, 2010, 01:14 PM
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Hey Oilburner:

Thanks for the info on the steering arms. Do you have any pics of your original setup? I'm hoping to get on with my steering arms asap. I have the arm for the right side cut but havent drilled any holes yet or welded anything on it to attach anywhere. The arm itself is made on of .75" flat bar and I'm copying the basic profile of the s2a arms but flat. I haven't decided if Im using rover tie rod ends or gm. I hadn't even considered fc101 parts. I'll have to look into that too.

I will get a good pic of the jackman's for you later today and will post it here, or can email it to you as well. 17" j's would be super cool.

Thanks.

Daniel
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  #40  
Old December 15th, 2010, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by 1962siia88 View Post
Hey Bill

Timm's adapter is a housing that bolts to both the trans and tcase. There's is a shaft inside the housing to transfer the power. I don't remember the exact dimensions but it adds a few inches to the length but does fit easily in an 88" and I can still run an overdrive too.
Yeah I get that, but the trans in your pic is a 2wd trans not a 4wd trans. Usually what you do is find the Ford version that has the extra casting on the front so you can adapt it to the GM bell housing (or just use a Ford engine). The rear will have a trapezoidal bolt pattern to fit the factory Ford TC adapter. I dunno what you got going with Mr Cooper so I'll butt out.

------ Follow up post added December 15th, 2010 02:07 PM ------

Quote:
Still have to figure out my high steering set up
Hydraulic, no issues.
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