S3 Diesel 2.25, won't start after pump re-seal - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old August 15th, 2014, 06:19 PM
jgrear
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Jason
1973 Series III Diesel 2.25
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S3 Diesel 2.25, won't start after pump re-seal

Hi everyone- I am a new owner of a Series 3 diesel 2.25 (had a petrol mode on the 1990's). My diesel was running great but developed a leak from the injection pump head after a little off-roading. I marked the pump location, removed the pump, replaced the head seal and the hoses to and from the pump, and put everything back together. It is now leak-free but will only start if towed. Once it is running from the tow start, it smokes heavily (blueish white), even after running about five minutes. When I shut it down to adjust the pump timing, it won't restart without a tow. I don't think it's an air leak because the vent screws on the pump squirt diesel when I crack them open. The only change to original setup was to add the tiny little idle spring behind governor arm because I discovered it was missing when I opened the governor housing. This adds slightly more tension to throttle linkage but doesn't seem like it could explain the starting problem. Is it possible for diesel build-up in the cylinders to cause problems like this. Do i need to let it run longer (choke the neighbors) after tow-starting it? Does anyone have other suggestions?
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  #2  
Old August 15th, 2014, 07:01 PM
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Sounds like the timing is wrong. Check both the valve and pump timing.
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Old August 15th, 2014, 08:14 PM
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Thanks. I am not sure why valve timing would be off because it was running so well before I removed the pump. I have two questions:
1) When you say check the valve timing, do you mean the whole process of removing the water pump, using dial gauge, etc, or do you mean to just line up the 13 degree mark on the flywheel and then check the location of the master spline on the pump drive gear?
2) When you say check the pump timing, do you mean the trial and error process of advancing and retarding the pump position?
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Old August 15th, 2014, 09:34 PM
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Whoa! Back up a little you say you have a 2.25 with the injector pump horizontal on the left side front of the motor? That would be a 2.5. 2.25's have the injector pump located verticaly in the same place the distributor sits on a petrol 2.25, central on the left side.
Pic would clarify.

Either way both the injector pumps are also timed on the inside as well as on the base for the 2.25 or gear for the 2.5.

Valve timing is usually meant by adjusting the valves so they open and close the correct distance at the correct time. Done under the valve cover.

hth
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Old August 16th, 2014, 07:30 AM
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Jason
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Thank you for clarifying the valve timing question. It's a 2.25. The pump is only horizontal when the truck is going straight down off of a cliff. But I am still confused about the pump timing. What do you mean about the pump being internally timed? I didn't dismantle the head or transfer pump inside of the injection pump, so the internal timing of the pump should be the same as before. Are you referring to the pump position (rotation) on its engine mount? I marked that before the re-seal and have been trying different positions but still not starting without a tow. Ran great before. If timing is off, how is it possible for the engine to run after a tow start? I am beginning to miss the petrol motor.
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Old August 16th, 2014, 12:40 PM
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Jason,

As I understand it you removed the pump after marking the position prior to removal. While the pump was out neither the crank was turned or the gear on the bottom of the injector pump.
Have you bled the fuel filter and the injector lines?

If nothing has been moved and there is no air in the system it should start up, have you checked to see that the fuel stop is adjusted correctly? Does the glow plug preheat system work?
I doesn't take much movement of the injector pump to have the timing off, you could get it running and with the base loose try turning the pump. It should move a bit with out having to bend the pipes. You could also while running loosen the line to the injector one at a time and see if the engine dies/changes. This is much like pulling a spark plug to check for a bad plug.
One other thing not talked about much where the fuel line comes into the top of the injector is a screen, make sure it is clean.

Jason sent you an email
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Old August 16th, 2014, 12:57 PM
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I think what is being suggested is that the injection pump timing in relation to the camshaft and crank shaft isn't right. One tooth off will make it a sombitch as you describe its current state. Did you use a pin to lock the crank in tdc position and the cam alignment marks were perfectly aligned ?
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  #8  
Old August 16th, 2014, 03:58 PM
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Jason
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I didn't use a pin, but didn't move anything while the pump was out. The splined drive between the drive gear and the pump has a master spline, which was kept in its original location, and then the pump base was marked. Is it still possible for things to get out of whack? I can open up the rocker cover and inspection plate to realign everythin if needed, but trying to avoid if unnecessary. If the gear is out of place, not sure how I will reposition it.
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  #9  
Old August 17th, 2014, 09:31 AM
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Just some in put......after you do get it right, it will still smoke a bit. If you ran it for any time while it was running rich, you have fuel in your exhaust system. When the temp comes up she will smoke like hell for a few minutes while the raw fuel burns off.
After "being there, done that"...I am going to say it is one tooth "advanced". This will show itself in hard starting....IE: towing, and your rich, smoking condition. If you listen VERY carefully (I know this isnt easy with that thing clanking and banging), you can hear it "knocking" under excelleration. It will have the standard diesel "knock"....but again if you listen there will be 2 instead of one. Hope this makes sense. I learned by trial and error....not fun.
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  #10  
Old August 17th, 2014, 11:44 AM
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Thanks ranewman. The part that's really got me confused is how the drive gear could be one tooth advanced. I never touched the crankshaft, drive gear, or grub screw, so if I put the pump back as before, with master splines lined up and pump body at it's previous mark on the base, how could it be one tooth advanced? Seems like maybe there's something about the drive gear and cam shaft that I don't understand.
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  #11  
Old August 17th, 2014, 11:58 AM
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Gene:
Jason has fuel squirting from the injector lines, so he doesn't think he has air in the fuel system.

Jason:
I think you have a pump issue if you are certain the timing is spot on.

There is a spare 2.25 IP up in my loft.
Not sure how good or bad it is, but if you pay shipping you can try it out to see if the issue is with your pump as long as you return mine.
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  #12  
Old August 17th, 2014, 12:38 PM
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Borrowing a pump might be answer...Thank you for offering! My pump does seem a little odd. It was missing the tiny idle spring (behind the governor arm) and the tab washers, so you might be right about it being a pump problem. I don't want to replace it until I'm sure that's the problem. Can I try yours?
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Old August 17th, 2014, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgrear View Post
Borrowing a pump might be answer...Thank you for offering! My pump does seem a little odd. It was missing the tiny idle spring (behind the governor arm) and the tab washers, so you might be right about it being a pump problem. I don't want to replace it until I'm sure that's the problem. Can I try yours?
I'll PM you details.
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UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #14  
Old August 17th, 2014, 02:55 PM
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Jason
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A tease !! I tried retarding the pump a lot (1/4" rotation) and it started after a lot of cranking without a tow! I let it run for about 15 minutes at high idle, but smoke did not clear. When I went to slow the idle, it died and now won't restart from the battery.
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Old August 17th, 2014, 05:16 PM
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Jason:
Found the 2.25 IP.
PM me your shipping address and I'll let you know the shipping cost.
Weekends are real busy for me so it took a little time to located the IP.
I have so many parts, it's hard to find a particular one at times.
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UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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