Disc Brake Conversion Questions - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old April 20th, 2017, 05:07 PM
zb-30
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Dale
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Disc Brake Conversion Questions

So, I have a '76 Series 3 ex-MOD 109 that has a 3.5 liter V8 from a '88 RRC installed. I despise the drum brakes that are on there. I want to convert them to Disc brakes and I plan on using the kit from Heystee Automotive. I am confused though about the servo and master cylinder. Heystee seems to indicate that to do a 4 wheel disc conversion that I have to install a pedal box, servo, and master cylinder from a Defender. But it also seems like I have seen elsewhere on the web that it's ok to install the 4 wheel discs and keep the series 3 pedal box, servo and master cylinder. Being a '76 it already has the dual circuit master cylinder so it seems that this would be ok with the discs. Anyone here done the Heystee conversion?
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  #2  
Old April 20th, 2017, 05:24 PM
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Robert Davis
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I that that's a question to ask to who ever is supplying the disc brake conversion.
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Old April 20th, 2017, 07:41 PM
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Call Forbyn Brothers for a better outcome. Here's a pic of my 1976 Series III 109 with their disc brakes installed:
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1976 Series III 109 "Montoya" ("You killed my father, prepare to die")
1988 Defender 90 LHD "Vizzini" (speed demon from Sicily)
1987 Defender 90 MOD LHD "fezzik" (giant rock thrower)
2015 MB CLS63
1975 Porsche 911 hot rod
1964 Porsche (Beck) 904
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  #4  
Old April 20th, 2017, 08:47 PM
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  #5  
Old April 26th, 2017, 01:39 PM
zb-30
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1976 Land Rover Series 3 MOD FFR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Factoid View Post
Call Forbyn Brothers for a better outcome. Here's a pic of my 1976 Series III 109 with their disc brakes installed:

I looked at theirs, but I don't like the fact they are Aluminum, Heystee is steel.
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  #6  
Old April 28th, 2017, 04:37 PM
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Jack Walter
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I'm installing a Heystee conversion on my SIIA 88" - using D-90/Discovery solid rotors on the front and staying with 10" drums on the back. I've got a Series III pedal stand and bought the booster from Heystee because its smaller in diameter than the later Land Rover units and won't require as much fender cutting. I'm planning on using the master cylinder that was used on the disc/drum equipped 110's. I also switched to later wheel cyinders in the rear brakes so all the brake pipe threads in the system will be metric instead of a mix.

Couple of gotchas with the Heystee conversion if you're not expecting them - not a big problem but for information purposes so you aren't surprised by them:

Clearance around the 12 mm star head bolts used to mount the front calipers is very tight. Be prepared to turn a box head wrench by 1/8 turn before re positioning the wrench for another bite. Also you might need to do a little clearance grinding where the caliper bolts up to the new swivel housing - its best if you do this on the bench before you have the hubs and rotors mounted (I didn't).

Your Series III master cylinder will not work on disc brakes because the front chamber of the drum brake M/C does not have enough volume to operate the calipers.

Also the new hubs are supplied with the larger studs that were introduced on the Series III - which means you have to find a set of stock Series III hubs for the rear axle if you're upgrading a Series II (unless you don't care that the rear axle will take a different size lug nut than the front axle).
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  #7  
Old April 28th, 2017, 04:52 PM
zb-30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackW View Post
I'm installing a Heystee conversion on my SIIA 88" - using D-90/Discovery solid rotors on the front and staying with 10" drums on the back. I've got a Series III pedal stand and bought the booster from Heystee because its smaller in diameter than the later Land Rover units and won't require as much fender cutting. I'm planning on using the master cylinder that was used on the disc/drum equipped 110's. I also switched to later wheel cyinders in the rear brakes so all the brake pipe threads in the system will be metric instead of a mix.

Couple of gotchas with the Heystee conversion if you're not expecting them - not a big problem but for information purposes so you aren't surprised by them:

Clearance around the 12 mm star head bolts used to mount the front calipers is very tight. Be prepared to turn a box head wrench by 1/8 turn before re positioning the wrench for another bite. Also you might need to do a little clearance grinding where the caliper bolts up to the new swivel housing - its best if you do this on the bench before you have the hubs and rotors mounted (I didn't).

Your Series III master cylinder will not work on disc brakes because the front chamber of the drum brake M/C does not have enough volume to operate the calipers.

Also the new hubs are supplied with the larger studs that were introduced on the Series III - which means you have to find a set of stock Series III hubs for the rear axle if you're upgrading a Series II (unless you don't care that the rear axle will take a different size lug nut than the front axle).
My series 3 is a '76. I've ordered the front and rear conversion from Heystee along with the 8" servo and plan on using the same 110 master cylinder as you. I also think I might replace all the brake lines so everything is metric. So basically I have a completely new brake system except for the pedal box. Thanks for the tips!
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  #8  
Old April 28th, 2017, 05:00 PM
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Jack Walter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zb-30 View Post
My series 3 is a '76. I've ordered the front and rear conversion from Heystee along with the 8" servo and plan on using the same 110 master cylinder as you. I also think I might replace all the brake lines so everything is metric. So basically I have a completely new brake system except for the pedal box. Thanks for the tips!
If you're going with discs all around you might need a different master cylinder - the one off a D-90 should work well. I'm keeping it simpler with the disc/drum setup.
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  #9  
Old April 28th, 2017, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackW View Post
If you're going with discs all around you might need a different master cylinder - the one off a D-90 should work well. I'm keeping it simpler with the disc/drum setup.
I talked to Heystee about it and although it is not an ideal set up using the early 110 Master with their 8" it will work ok. I really did not want to use a servo & master cylinder from a later 90 because then I'd have to also get a Defender pedal box. Plus I may have to cut into the wing and the big Defender servo might not fit well under the bonnet either.
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  #10  
Old April 28th, 2017, 07:08 PM
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The discovery dual 8" should fit.
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  #11  
Old April 29th, 2017, 01:13 AM
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I was doing some research tonight and found that the 1987 Range Rover uses a Lockheed master cylinder that looks like it would fit the early Defender servo as well as the Series 3 servo. Part number is RTC3658. This might be a better option than the early Defender 110 master cylinder since it was designed for front and rear disc brakes. Any thoughts?
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  #12  
Old April 29th, 2017, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zb-30 View Post
I was doing some research tonight and found that the 1987 Range Rover uses a Lockheed master cylinder that looks like it would fit the early Defender servo as well as the Series 3 servo. Part number is RTC3658. This might be a better option than the early Defender 110 master cylinder since it was designed for front and rear disc brakes. Any thoughts?
I think the cylinder is functionally the same between 110/90 and RRC and the change is the proportioning valve for the back axle.
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  #13  
Old August 15th, 2017, 04:03 PM
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The Heystee guy stole the design from Timm Cooper. The kit from Forbyn Bros is Timm's old work with upgraded billet aluminum housings. I don't want to support guys that copied Timm's and gets away with it over the pond.
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  #14  
Old August 16th, 2017, 12:22 PM
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Hey guys, I am in the process of swapping in my haystee kit now. I need one of these gaskets though. What are they called specifically, does anyone know where I can get one?

All I bought are the kits from haystee and the defender stuff. I just have the stock maser cylinder in there, where should I go for the new one that I am reading I will need?

Thanks and please


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  #15  
Old August 16th, 2017, 12:50 PM
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That is the swivel ball seal. Sold everywhere, but avoid Britparts unless you want a leak. To replace it properly, you will need several other gaskets as the hub and housing have to be removed (as you have done in your picture).

There is another way where you use a fine blade to cut the seal at the top, carefully slide it over the swivel ball, and then seal the cut at the top of the axle, but I'd do it the correct way.

Rovers North sells them as do most others.
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1976 Series III 109 "Montoya" ("You killed my father, prepare to die")
1988 Defender 90 LHD "Vizzini" (speed demon from Sicily)
1987 Defender 90 MOD LHD "fezzik" (giant rock thrower)
2015 MB CLS63
1975 Porsche 911 hot rod
1964 Porsche (Beck) 904
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  #16  
Old August 16th, 2017, 03:37 PM
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Nathan Harrison
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I think I had the 2nd prototype disc conversion that BCB (Timm Cooper) made and used the standard dual servo master & servo used on my 71 11A... it worked really well stopping my 300hp Chevy V8... Just did a conversion recently on a 78 109 using RRC axles and brakes & still kept the stock Servo & master (new one) worked out well.

------ Follow up post added August 16th, 2017 01:45 PM ------

PM me I am local and have done this conversion.. (the real one)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theloosecannon View Post
Hey guys, I am in the process of swapping in my haystee kit now. I need one of these gaskets though. What are they called specifically, does anyone know where I can get one?

All I bought are the kits from haystee and the defender stuff. I just have the stock maser cylinder in there, where should I go for the new one that I am reading I will need?

Thanks and please


Attachment 282202
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  #17  
Old August 16th, 2017, 07:02 PM
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Awesome! Thank you.

Also what is this pin or clip that holds these together? I can't find anything on line and they didn't come with the caliper kit... any ideas guys?

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  #18  
Old August 16th, 2017, 07:29 PM
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Nathan Harrison
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The original kit's we used Defender 110 calipers so all the hardware including the mounting bolts should be for it.
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  #19  
Old August 16th, 2017, 07:40 PM
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Robert Davis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theloosecannon View Post
Awesome! Thank you.

Also what is this pin or clip that holds these together? I can't find anything on line and they didn't come with the caliper kit... any ideas guys?

Attachment 282418
We have piles of the brake hardware, but need some more defined pictures to guide you or send what you need.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #20  
Old August 17th, 2017, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
We have piles of the brake hardware, but need some more defined pictures to guide you or send what you need.
I literally need everything. I only have the actual caliper, the rotor and the pads. I need everything else. Do you have all that stuff?
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