Can a S2a 88 fit the 6 cylinder? - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old November 12th, 2014, 03:51 AM
skapegoat
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Can a S2a 88 fit the 6 cylinder?

I need an engine for my 1968 88 and wondered if the Rover 6 cyl that came in the 109'2 would fit and was available.
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  #2  
Old November 12th, 2014, 03:53 AM
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Rare engine, not loved or appreciated.. If looking for power and economy 200tdi, if looking for power and smoothness V8
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  #3  
Old November 12th, 2014, 05:08 AM
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You can't fit a 6. The bulkhead is different on the 6 cylinder trucks.
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Old November 12th, 2014, 08:21 AM
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^ besides, that lump is a boat anchor, hard to find parts for and better used to hold a tarp down than motivate a LR.
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  #5  
Old November 12th, 2014, 08:35 AM
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You're better off using an engine that runs solely on unicorn tears. Especially if you're referring to the NADA 6 cylinder and not the later ser.III 6 cyl.
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Old November 12th, 2014, 09:17 AM
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talk about jumping out of the frying pan directly into the fire.
The 6cyl is a horrible engine, poorly designed and the NADA version was even worse that the euro version.
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Old November 12th, 2014, 12:51 PM
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Ok, So I'm getting a subtle sense that you guys don't like that idea of the Rover 6. Got it.
Sounds like the option that continues to come up is the 200 or 300 tdi.
Where is the best place to source one of those?
Thanks again.
T
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  #8  
Old November 12th, 2014, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skapegoat View Post
Sounds like the option that continues to come up is the 200 or 300 tdi.
Where is the best place to source one of those?
Thanks again.
T
The search button, or even the for sale parts section...

http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...ad.php?t=57685
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  #9  
Old November 12th, 2014, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skapegoat View Post
Ok, So I'm getting a subtle sense that you guys don't like that idea of the Rover 6. Got it.
Sounds like the option that continues to come up is the 200 or 300 tdi.
Where is the best place to source one of those?
Thanks again.
T
Best option, probably yes. Quickest/cheapest option, probably another 2.25
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  #10  
Old November 12th, 2014, 01:22 PM
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As mentioned on that other forum, butchering up a 2A is something I would avoid. Put in a 2.25 gas with a 2A trans and transfer case. Make it original.
'Course, I am the king of butchering up a 2A, so there is that...
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1966 109 5 door wagon 300Tdi "spermaceti fueled"
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  #11  
Old November 12th, 2014, 06:55 PM
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The real question is do you want a huge project that might not get finished? Or do you want a quick engine swap that you can do in a weekend and enjoy the truck? I'd go for just a replacement engine that won't be a headache to install. I wouldn't want a project.
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  #12  
Old November 12th, 2014, 07:11 PM
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Probably more than you want to know...

Quote:
Originally Posted by skapegoat View Post
I need an engine for my 1968 88 and wondered if the Rover 6 cyl that came in the 109'2 would fit and was available.
Thanks
Trevor
The Intake Over Exhaust (I-O-E), engines used in England and other countries years ago are considered a very high maintenance engine.
The design dates back to pre-WWI.
The exhaust valves are made into the block with side rockers.
The block is slanted with a wedge shaped cylinder head that contains the inlet valves.
The pistons are slanted to accommodate the combustion chamber situated in the side of the engine cylinder.
Because the compression is essentially to one side of the block the cylinders wear opposite the valve side and become oval shaped.
Because the way the exhaust valves are situated pointing down, there are no valve seals and thus draw in crankcase oil with every rotation (even when new).
The result is the engine burns about a quart of oil every 350 miles.
You are required to remove the exhaust manifold to adjust the exhaust valve tappet clearance every 3,000 miles.
Since the I-O-E 6 is really a stretched out Series I 4 cylinder with the 2 cylinders added, there are 4 rocker shafts, one pair in the head and the other in the block.
There are no valve seal rings to protect the cast iron block, so when the valves finally burn into the block, the head has to be removed and the block area machined to provide a new valve seat, which in turn alters the shape of the combustion chamber slightly and changes the engine compression.
The whole contraption is a maintenance nightmare and a challenge to keep in a reliable state.

Years ago I saw an 88 with a NADA 6 cylinder fitted by a friend of Sand Toler, but it was a shoe horn job and the back of the engine rattled the bulkhead because the 6 cylinder bulkhead and transmission position was very different from it's 4 cylinder counterpart.
To do the job properly, you should swap the 4 cyl bulkhead and tunnel assembly for a 6 cylinder one and move the transmission cross member and transmission 2 inches back.
Then you could use a 6 cyl front drive shaft, but would need to shorten your original rear drive shaft by 2", making it even shorter.
Depending on the particular Rover I-O-E 2.6 the performance is little better than the 2.25.
There is a longer stroke I-O-E 3.0 Liter 6 cylinder used in Rover cars that is a lot more powerful, but sadly not more reliable.
The I-O-E 6 weighs in at over 750 pounds, so the weigh to power output is poor by modern standards.

The whole exercise would take enough effort to be better spent performing a more modern and worthy conversion, like an OM617, Rover TDI, Diahatsu 2.8 Turbo Diesel, or GM 4 cylinder petrol, but is not impossible to perform to completion.
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  #13  
Old November 13th, 2014, 10:12 AM
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I left out a small detail...
The I-O-E engines share the belhousing pattern with the Series I which is different than the belhousing pattern of the Rover 4 cylinder engines used in the II, IIA, III.
So you'll need to swap transmissions or just the belhousing to fit a 6 cylinder to a series vehicle that originally had a 4 cylinder.
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
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  #14  
Old November 13th, 2014, 10:39 AM
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Robert,

Are you still doing anything with Mercruisers?
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  #15  
Old November 13th, 2014, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LNBright View Post
Robert,

Are you still doing anything with Mercruisers?
Not the Mercruiser 140 that I use to build to replace the Rover I-O-E 6 cylinder in the Series IIA & III.

I am, however building as many GM 4 cylinders as my pasts stock will allow.
Completed 2 2.5 GM engines already this year and am steadily working on 2 more presently.
One is close to being ready for run in and the other is waiting on an adapter to be finished by the machine shop.

There are about 7 more core engines in my shop that will be rebuilt and sold over the next year or 2, some will be the hybrid crossflow 3.0 liter version.

Then will officially call it quits on the GM to series conversion.
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #16  
Old November 13th, 2014, 01:40 PM
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If you must have a British 6 cylinder (major vintage points), there are a few people who have installed the wonderful Jaguar XK6 series engine into Series Land Rovers.

I can't find the photo at the moment, but if you search the old Land Rover mags you will find a beautiful IIA 109 with this engine mated to an LT77 gearbox. Otherwise restored appearance. What an excellent combination.
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  #17  
Old November 14th, 2014, 05:58 PM
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Years ago in junkyard in west Atlanta there was a Series 88" frame with a Rover six in it. It looked like a factory installation and had a rear mounted auxiliary fuel tank behind the rear axle. The body was missing so I have no idea what the bulkhead looked like. I tried to buy it but the junkyard owner crushed it instead for scrap value.
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  #18  
Old November 14th, 2014, 06:07 PM
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I loved my 6cyl in the Shorland. I could do 65mph when flat and held 35/45 up steep hills. Not bad for 6,500LB armored rover
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  #19  
Old November 14th, 2014, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
I left out a small detail... The I-O-E engines share the belhousing pattern with the Series I which is different than the belhousing pattern of the Rover 4 cylinder engines used in the II, IIA, III. So you'll need to swap transmissions or just the belhousing to fit a 6 cylinder to a series vehicle that originally had a 4 cylinder.
You need one out of a 58 SII or a factory six cylinder truck as SI had mechanical clutch linkages.
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Old November 15th, 2014, 08:35 AM
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I certainly wouldn't go through the expense of installing a rover 6 but I quite liked the euro 2.6 in my 109. Around town it was downright speedy. I did feel like I was living with bipolar chimpanzee based on all the hate for these so I was pretty paranoid about maintenance. Listen to the advice of others, 2.25 of you want a rover lump.
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