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  #1  
Old April 17th, 2012, 09:30 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Brakes dragging

I recently did the brakes on my 88" 2A. New shoes all round, new wheel cylinders and drums up front, turned the drums on the rear and rear cylinders looked recent and were not leaking so let them be.

The good: She brakes great. Crazy good. She went from double pump and pray to solid braking at the lightest touch, no pulling or anything.

The bad. They brake too well, in fact all the time it seems

They seem to be better when cold, and worse in reverse but they drag a lot. I check each wheel independently and they are all dragging to some degree, some worse than others. I have tried to adjust the snail cams but I had them set to be all the way in when I installed the shoes, just to get the drums on. There does appear to be a "high spot" on at least some - like something is off center, but 2 of the drums are new and the other two were turned.

Before I take it all apart does anyone have any suggestions on what could be wrong or what I should look for? I don't think the cylinders are sticking since it affects both the front and rear (new and old), but I will check this. I did not replace the springs so perhaps they are not providing enough pressure to pull the shoes back?

tia,
charles
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  #2  
Old April 17th, 2012, 11:07 PM
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Master cylinder?

Not in my rover ... But on my mountain bike I needed some brake fluid one morning as the brakes were spongy. I didn't have any but I had some power steering fluid. Worked fine for a while but the fluid effected the seals and it wouldn't release the pressure properly.

So ... If you have new cylinders ... Maybe the master cylinder needs some love.
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  #3  
Old April 18th, 2012, 03:46 AM
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I had this same problem with a series III I did brakes on awhile back. It ended up being the shoes dragging at the tops near the wheel cylinder. when I took them back out and compared them to the old shoes I found that the pad material was longer and was rubbing just at the top edges of the shoe. I ended up filling the top edge just a small amount and the shoes seemed to break i fine and are working good still. I tried all the bleeding adjusting as well and it was the allmakes shoes that was the problem.

Not sure if that helps but look closely to the top edge of the shoes.
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  #4  
Old April 18th, 2012, 07:10 AM
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@Jason, I'll check with a drum off and see if the movement of the pads looks right (ie they return). Something like this could be it as it seems all wheels are affected but I doubt it.

@Jeff, yes.

@ed, I'll look for this. I have chucked the old ones already but will double check the shoes are oriented correctly and top material doesn't look too tall.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 12:23 PM
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Might also want to check the pedal adjustment. Might be that the mc cant come all the way to the proper spot and the brakes are constantly partially applied. There is a specific height for the pedal listed in the green bible somewhere.

Daniel
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Old April 18th, 2012, 01:29 PM
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To check if the system is holding pressure while its dragging, pull off to the side of the road and crack the bleeders and see if there is pressure in the system. If theres not pressure build up then you most likely have a issue with the shoes.
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67 NADA diesel tremec 4spd salisbury rear springs on front and a LOT MORE TO GO.

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  #7  
Old April 18th, 2012, 05:06 PM
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brakes

Are the shoes branded TWR and from RN?

I had a pair of rears and had the same issue , when matched old to new, the new are bigger or longer than the old. took them off and re-fitted the old till new d1 axle is fitted
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  #8  
Old April 18th, 2012, 10:45 PM
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are you sure the springs are on correctly?
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  #9  
Old April 19th, 2012, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Ching View Post
are you sure the springs are on correctly?
I just had time to check the rears last night after checking other things, but no

I'm not sure how I botched it so badly, but on one side the spring fell out when I removed the drum, and on the other side I had the spring attached to one shoe and a post on the backing plate (not the side with snail cam) which I am guessing I did on all of them. I have worked on drum brakes before and know to attach the spring to both shoes so I am not sure why I did this other than I likely reproduced what was there when I replaced them.

Anyway, feeling a bit sheepish, but hope to check the fronts at lunch because I want to drive her to HH today. I'll report back once I know this fixes it for sure.
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Old April 19th, 2012, 01:13 PM
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All four had the top springs installed wrong. Now no dragging that I can tell (short test drive) but need 2 to 3 pumps to get any braking action! I did adjust the snail cams to what I thought was as much as I dared to avoid rubbing, so I think I'm facing the issue of the brake pas surface being longer than the original as I had significant wear on the edges (both top and bottom). When I get time, I'll try adjust the snail cams some more otherwise I think it's time to take some material off the ends of the shoes or buy genuine. I wish I could recall what brand these were but I got them from BP.
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Old April 19th, 2012, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgalpin View Post
but need 2 to 3 pumps to get any braking action!
Glad it's fixed!

Note to self..... don't let Charles follow heading to HH tonight.
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Old April 19th, 2012, 01:25 PM
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But I'll need you in front of me to make sure I stop.

I might get you to pump the brakes for me before we go to verify I didn't let any air into the system when I was cracking the bleeder valves to rule out the cylinders holding pressure.
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Old April 19th, 2012, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgalpin View Post
But I'll need you in front of me to make sure I stop.

I might get you to pump the brakes for me before we go to verify I didn't let any air into the system when I was cracking the bleeder valves to rule out the cylinders holding pressure.
Will do. Does 5 work?
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Old April 19th, 2012, 01:34 PM
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Sounds good, thanks.
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Old April 19th, 2012, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgalpin View Post
All four had the top springs installed wrong. Now no dragging that I can tell (short test drive) but need 2 to 3 pumps to get any braking action! I did adjust the snail cams to what I thought was as much as I dared to avoid rubbing, so I think I'm facing the issue of the brake pas surface being longer than the original as I had significant wear on the edges (both top and bottom). When I get time, I'll try adjust the snail cams some more otherwise I think it's time to take some material off the ends of the shoes or buy genuine. I wish I could recall what brand these were but I got them from BP.

Nice you fixed it..
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67 NADA diesel tremec 4spd salisbury rear springs on front and a LOT MORE TO GO.

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Old April 19th, 2012, 03:36 PM
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I don't consider it fixed yet since triple pumping is hardly my idea of good brakes. But at least I know I won't be burning up the brakes until I get it sorted.
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Old April 19th, 2012, 05:20 PM
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You still have your springs hooked up wrong. The springs are now pulling the shoes too far back and it takes two or three pumps to move them forward enough (do not ask how I know this).

Triple check your springs.
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  #18  
Old April 20th, 2012, 07:47 AM
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Yes we'll need to chat. I now have the worst of both worlds - it still feels like it's dragging and it's a triple pump to stop. I sometimes get a horrendous sound from the right front (i think) when braking as well
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Old April 21st, 2012, 05:50 PM
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I had a chat with Dave B. yesterday and he explained the *right* way the springs should be installed. My original attempt was close but clearly not close enough. Now with the springs in what I believe are the right configuration I don't have any dragging and have a nice responsive pedal, albeit with two caveats.

1. I feel a pulse in the pedal which I didn't before.
2. I hear a horrible noise from the front when light pressure applied. This started when I changed to my second attempt at the spring configuration, so I'm hoping when the shoes wear in this will go away, otherwise I'm going to need to figure this one out.
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Old April 22nd, 2012, 03:47 PM
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Take a picture of the correct way to install the springs when you a chance. Seems like this is needed!
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