Anyone here done a 200tdi swap into Series? - Page 2 - Defender Source
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  #21  
Old December 26th, 2013, 08:21 AM
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I am in the midst of this conversion myself using a Defender 200. The turbo downpipe and steering box arm want to occopy the same space (I solved this by converting to power steering). Packaging the radiator/intercooler neatly and effectively is an involved process. I am using a Defender 200 radiator and a Defender 300 intercooler with the IC nested in front of the radiator. You can use the stock Series radiator by swapping the thermostat housing from the 2.25 over to the 200Tdi and apparently this works well. However you will end up with the very small diameter radiator hoses. If you do keep the Series rad you will have to find a place to stick the IC... there are lots of photos of this online and most of them honestly look like crap. You will have to convert the Series rod throttle linkage to a cable linkage.

If I were to do it again and wanted to keep everything as easy as possible I would use a Discovery 200Tdi and swap 300Tdi manifolds/turbo onto it. This makes the engine itself pretty plug and play, you just need to sort out the radiator/intercooler and associated plumbing, and the throttle pedal/cable.
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  #22  
Old December 26th, 2013, 08:40 AM
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You will have to convert the Series rod throttle linkage to a cable linkage.
Nope.

Another thing, run a return line to the tank. You can plumb it into the vent hose if there's no barb on the tank. Your exhaust is going to route different too.
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  #23  
Old December 26th, 2013, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Glad you said this.
It is not worth doing without the turbo.
I agree, unless of course the engine is available for cheap. My rationale is that I ran my 200tdi without a turbo for a while after my rebuild and the truck wouldn't go above 55mph on a level surface. On any sort of incline, I needed to be in 4th and at high revs to go above 45mph.

Granted, my truck weighs 3800 lbs, with a lift, exocage, and gnarly tires. Maybe you could get 60 mph in the series
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  #24  
Old December 26th, 2013, 10:18 AM
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The 200TDI was designed on the drawing board to function with a turbo.
Some guy was boasting about how fine his series ran with a 200TDI less the turbo.
I just had to ask what the T stood for in TDI...
Then there were all these discussions about how the 200TDI was suppose to have an factory N/A version.
I had to ask again, if having a N/A 200TDI was such a good idea, then how come Rover didn't release any into the marketplace.

When the first TDI designs came out with the zero tolerance head and combustion chamber inside the piston, it was thought to be a sound design with a rotary IP that enriched fuel based on boost pressure. The in piston combustion area is specifically designed to function and flow under boost pressure with fueling mechanically metered to automagically invoke fuel enrichment or trim it back again BASED ON BOOST PRESSURE.

So by inherent design removing the turbo removes the keystone of the arch of 200TDI engine management and without the keystone the arch cannot exist in it's normal state.

TDI = TURBO Diesel Injected or Turbo Direct Injection (originally called Turbocharged Direct Injection: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turboch...rect_Injection), but in each case turbo is there.

As Adam, Bill, Ed, Mark, and others advise the turbo is paramount.

Another source is Elton Wright who has also completed this conversion in a 109 and just happens to work at Blue Ridge Diesel
1016 Delaware St
Salem, VA 24153

Good luck and hope this helps.
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  #25  
Old December 26th, 2013, 10:27 AM
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But why bother with it [period] Jason? I mean, you are not going to "wheel" the thing, you are not going to drive to NC on camping trips in it with the family, you are not going to drive down I95 in it at 60mph...let alone anything faster...I mean why bother with something that will be an around town runabout (look at how cool I am) vehicle? - Kinda like Galpin LMAO
And me....

If it is just for diesel - do the drop in 2.5?

Either way I would def get in touch with Rob Davis...even better than a LR Diesel would be the MBZ diesel - Right Rob!!
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  #26  
Old December 26th, 2013, 10:30 AM
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What I'm taking away from this:
- Disco 200
- Defender 300 turbo & manifold
- leave out the powersteering and it shouldn't interfere with the steering arm
- stock Series radiator can be used, but fitting an intercooler (possibly aftermarket) will take some finagling.
- custom exhaust work will be needed
- 200 *should* mate up to the stock Series gearbox, and if you "take it easy" driving the stock gearbox and stock diffs should hopefully be ok handling the additional torque.
- if you wanted to do the install in "stages" you could leave off the turbo & intercooler temporarily and just install the 200 to get things up and running and add the turbo/intercooler on at a later date.
- some fiddling with the fuel lines and possibly bringing over the Series tstat housing onto the 200 block and some other small bits & pieces, but for the most part is a straight drop-in (i.e. no custom mounts/chassis mods/etc need to be done).
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  #27  
Old December 26th, 2013, 10:38 AM
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Correct and the 200 does absolutely mate up with the Series transmission. Buy a Series III clutch assembly (it bolts right to the Tdi flywheel). When using a Discovery engine you will need to fit some additional socket head cap screws to the bottom of the oil pan/block girdle. There are good write ups on this.

Also for the record a 2.5NA is not a drop in job, it needs a new RH engine mount fabricated on the chassis.
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  #28  
Old December 26th, 2013, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post
But why bother with it [period] Jason? I mean, you are not going to "wheel" the thing, you are not going to drive to NC on camping trips in it with the family, you are not going to drive down I95 in it at 60mph...let alone anything faster...I mean why bother with something that will be an around town runabout (look at how cool I am) vehicle? - Kinda like Galpin LMAO
And me....

If it is just for diesel - do the drop in 2.5?

Either way I would def get in touch with Rob Davis...even better than a LR Diesel would be the MBZ diesel - Right Rob!!
Honestly would like to go from 12mpg to high-20s/low-30s mpg, I am familiar with and like the Tdi platform, would be nice to have a little more "get up and go" from a 200, and I plan to do the disc brake conversion as well so *if* I wanted to do 70-75mph down the road it would be nice (and I wouldn't be worried about over-stressing the current braking setup). Plus, in theory it would be an "around town" car but even in NY I do a bit of highway driving as things are just more spread out there (heck, it's 55 miles of highway just for me to get to my folks shop).

And I'll have my motor out and literally everything apart when I do the rebuild anyway...so it's one of those "while you're in there" sort of situations. Plus, I'm not in a super rush for this project so taking my time and doing this sort of additional scope isn't a big deal...and I think the end result is worth it. One thing I do hate about the Series is 120-130 miles between fill ups!
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  #29  
Old December 26th, 2013, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post
Either way I would def get in touch with Rob Davis...even better than a LR Diesel would be the MBZ diesel - Right Rob!!
Well you do make a good point there Jonesy.
To date, have sold all the available OM617 kits with more available next month.

BTW: Wife threw out the jar of Kraft Vegemite so the hor devours were lacking bait yesterday. Might have to buy another jar and hide it before next year.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #30  
Old December 26th, 2013, 12:34 PM
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Jason, it sounds like you are headed down the path of more or a "resto-mod" Series which is great. However as with any such project once you start to go off the beaten path the amount of work and headaches goes through the roof (not to mention the cost). For example it doesn't make much sense to go with Tdi power and disk brakes yet keep the manual steering, at least from a functionality perspective.
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  #31  
Old December 26th, 2013, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
Honestly would like to go 70-75mph down the road ...
You'll want higher gearing from the stock 4.7 to say a 3.8 or 3.54.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #32  
Old December 26th, 2013, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
You'll want higher gearing from the stock 4.7 to say a 3.8 or 3.54.
Yes, but at the cost of low range crawl ratio.
The Ashcroft HRTC or a Roamerdrive might be a better solution to the gearing problem.
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  #33  
Old December 26th, 2013, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by meatblanket View Post
Yes, but at the cost of low range crawl ratio.
The Ashcroft HRTC or a Roamerdrive might be a better solution to the gearing problem.
Good point Mike.

If off roading is a factor then just changing the diffs may not be the best option depending on if the 200TDI can pull the higher gearing or not.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #34  
Old December 26th, 2013, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
BTW: Wife threw out the jar of Kraft Vegemite so the hor devours were lacking bait yesterday. Might have to buy another jar and hide it before next year.
I will get my mum to send some more over mate...not to worry
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  #35  
Old December 26th, 2013, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post
I will get my mum to send some more over mate...not to worry
Thanks.
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #36  
Old December 27th, 2013, 04:26 PM
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I've got my Defender 200tdi 1961 series 2 running a few months ago and driving it daily but I wouldn't do it again. I also have the power steering from a p38 range rover which we didn't plan on doing but the turbo on the engine was getting in the way of the original steering so the can of worms had already been opened. If I could go back I would have put a NA 2.5 diesel in it and I would have been driving a year ago. If you've just gotta have a turbo I would seriously consider the mercedes om617 swap. It's what I would have done but it was thought to be impossible at the time, if I wanted to keep my breakfast and stock lights. Power steering is a bitch. Had to make a bracket for the steering box to mount to the frame, which is the easy part. Also had to take a series steering column and steering shaft from my series and a defender, cut and splice both the shaft and steering column tube together to make one hybrid of the two. Also had to make a new steering track rod bar that was longer to reach over to the P38 steering box. There's a whole lot more work involved than any forum can explain. I've got 3.54 gears in it and I still can't go over 55 without over revving the engine. I still need an overdrive at some point or swap it for a 5 speed lt77 or stumpy r380. I do get great gas mileage probably around 30mpg and I expect more with an overdrive. If you want disk brakes I'd get a designa series coil spring chassis. Go to the junk yard and get complete axles off a discovery and you've got a brand new galvanized frame, newer suspension and disc brakes for close to the same price a front and back disc brake kit will cost you for a series. Oh and that's without considering the cost of new parabolic springs and shocks for your old chassis. just my 2 cents.
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  #37  
Old December 27th, 2013, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Apocalypse Vehicle View Post
I've got 3.54 gears in it and I still can't go over 55 without over revving the engine.

something is seriously wrong there. what size are your tires? Are you in low range? Seriously, with my ashcroft hi ratio box (basically same hi range gearing as 3.54 diffs provide) I could do 55 in 3rd gear.

According to this website you should be turning 2788 rpms with 32" tires @ 65mph

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/gear_ratio.htm
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  #38  
Old December 27th, 2013, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Apocalypse Vehicle View Post
I've got my Defender 200tdi 1961 series 2 running a few months ago and driving it daily but I wouldn't do it again. If you've just gotta have a turbo I would seriously consider the mercedes om617 swap. It's what I would have done but it was thought to be impossible at the time, if I wanted to keep my breakfast and stock lights. just my 2 cents.
Evian:
Very very very few people have any concept what it is like to complete an engine conversion, much less build a kit to put an OM617 into a Land Rover. It took years to prefect and one is never certain that everything is total perfection without some room for improvement. It becomes a work in progress with constant improvements in the works from the start.

Having done both conversions and driving a TDI for 8 years daily, I would take the OM617 over any Rover engine. Right now we have 2 TDI's in the shop with head problems. Both are a bitch to fix and how do you guarantee work when the gaskets fail on a new head and completely true block.

But this thread is about a 200TDI swap and even though the transmission belhousing basically lines up with the 200TDI engine, it is still more complicated than dropping in an OM617. I'm just stating my opinion because there is no need to pimp kits here... they sell themselves and are sold out until February.

Jason:
Good luck with your install.
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #39  
Old December 27th, 2013, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Jason:
Good luck with your install.
Well, I've gotta install this (chassis):
Click image for larger version

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and this (new tub...just transported today!):
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...FIRST !
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  #40  
Old December 27th, 2013, 06:25 PM
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Oh yeah...and it's all in order to un-bash this:
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