Rebuilt 110 on Miami CL - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old May 7th, 2011, 11:08 AM
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Rebuilt 110 on Miami CL

http://miami.craigslist.org/brw/cto/2366923973.html

You could buy two condos for that price.
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  #2  
Old May 7th, 2011, 11:52 AM
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Drool.
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  #3  
Old May 7th, 2011, 10:20 PM
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That's a nice truck. I bet my elderly aunt in boca would feel hip driving around in that or maybe she would break a hip getting in. Either way sweet ride.
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  #4  
Old May 8th, 2011, 03:39 PM
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I would like to pass along a rare opportunity. I have for sale an exceptional example of a completely illegal 2010 Defender 110 , possibly stolen in Europe, with a 1983 VIN, probably from a truck scrapped in the UK. You'll be finished if US Customs catches up with you. This 110 has been very well hidden. It has been driven just 2285 Km (1428 miles) since it has spent most of its life being smuggled in containers. The D110 is very well equipped with 7 seats, CD player, AM/FM radio, air conditioning, Rubber matts, 6 speed gear box, and 2.4 ltr turbo diesel, all of which rest on a galvanized
frame that conveniently has no VIN on it. I added the Safety Device G4 roof rack and ladder to help justify the ridiculous price. The Defender rides on Michelin XZL 7.50 Tyres and white steel wheels that are available every day in the UK for $800 a set. The Defender has been fully slipped under the radar and is presented with no inspection from any government agency. This is not the normal knocked around Defender; it is brand new and drives beautifully. It gets 25 mpg at 70mph. The Defender can be seen and driven in the Fort Lauderdale area by emailing, its available for immediate delivery. I have the title, both keys and owners handbook. More pictures are available on request. I can assist with shipping anywhere in the US and Canada at buyer’s expense. I'm not leaving my number here to safeguard against being caught by the Feds, email me and we can discuss the Land Rover. Thank you for being gullible.
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  #5  
Old May 8th, 2011, 03:51 PM
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[sarcasm] Wow, sounds like a lot of potential fun to be had! [/sarcasm]
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  #6  
Old May 8th, 2011, 04:22 PM
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Some serious venom in that post. Not really sure why. I have been looking for a NAS 90 but I have been trying to educate myself on these trucks. I see a few UK guys on the board who are genuinely pissed at how much ROW trucks go for in the US and I have to wonder why. Defenders go for a premium in the USA. It is just how it is. Why does this upset people so much?

As far as this truck being stolen, I just don't understand how that would be possible. I would think you would have to have some serious connections as an American to get someone to steal one let alone ship it here with a fake identity without getting caught. As for having no VIN I doubt it. I have never bought a car where the DMV didn't check the VIN on the frame. I am not trying to start trouble but I feel there is some serious misinformation going on. I can't tell if it is jealousy or just ignorance. With that said I am super jealous that I can't even come close to buying this.
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  #7  
Old May 8th, 2011, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by megamatt View Post
Some serious venom in that post. Not really sure why. I have been looking for a NAS 90 but I have been trying to educate myself on these trucks. I see a few UK guys on the board who are genuinely pissed at how much ROW trucks go for in the US and I have to wonder why. Defenders go for a premium in the USA. It is just how it is. Why does this upset people so much?

As far as this truck being stolen, I just don't understand how that would be possible. I would think you would have to have some serious connections as an American to get someone to steal one let alone ship it here with a fake identity without getting caught. As for having no VIN I doubt it. I have never bought a car where the DMV didn't check the VIN on the frame. I am not trying to start trouble but I feel there is some serious misinformation going on. I can't tell if it is jealousy or just ignorance. With that said I am super jealous that I can't even come close to buying this.

People in the US are turning a blind eye to seriously questionable history trucks ... Probably through not knowing what goes on and how easy it is to do. You can have the chassis stamped up with a number ... as long as you have the UK log book for the vehicle in question. The UK MOT test does not confirm vehicle identity and a 'friendly' inspector doesn't care that the 2008 truck has a 1983 build date ...

Don't be jealous ... think what would happen if you got in a wreck and the insurance company started investigating your truck and found a vin number from a stolen vehicle in Europe ...

Anyone buying one of these trucks should ask for the VIN number of the donor vehicle ... That will probably be in the mythical folder of all the restoration photos.

I'm not jealous ... I just don't want to see anyone pay excessive amounts of money to enrich some UK criminals.
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  #8  
Old May 8th, 2011, 09:07 PM
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He deleted the post....
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  #9  
Old May 8th, 2011, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leastonce View Post
People in the US are turning a blind eye to seriously questionable history trucks ... Probably through not knowing what goes on and how easy it is to do. You can have the chassis stamped up with a number ... as long as you have the UK log book for the vehicle in question. The UK MOT test does not confirm vehicle identity and a 'friendly' inspector doesn't care that the 2008 truck has a 1983 build date ...

Don't be jealous ... think what would happen if you got in a wreck and the insurance company started investigating your truck and found a vin number from a stolen vehicle in Europe ...

Anyone buying one of these trucks should ask for the VIN number of the donor vehicle ... That will probably be in the mythical folder of all the restoration photos.

I'm not jealous ... I just don't want to see anyone pay excessive amounts of money to enrich some UK criminals.
Can you give an example of one of these trucks starting life as a stolen vehicle? I have never seen any articles or anyone on here reporting that they later found out their truck was stolen. I would be impressed if the thief stole it with two sets of keys and an owners manual.

------ Follow up post added May 8th, 2011 08:34 PM ------

Questioning whether these trucks are legal as far as "rebuilding" is a different manner and really a gray area I know nothing about other than what is posted here.
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  #10  
Old May 9th, 2011, 03:17 AM
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Tony Sims
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Hey Matt, I'm not a Brit, I'm a Yank, I just live in the UK (for a few more weeks).

In simple terms, these Puma Defenders being sold under an earlier VIN are illegal. The the law says vehicles over 25 years old may be imported, and the letter of the law implies (maybe even stipulates, Doug Crowther would know) that the vehicle must be substantially original, including the original engine.

There are many Defenders in the UK (and other parts of Europe) that have parts from other trucks, often newer trucks. In the UK, the identity of the vehicle is defined by the chassis -- if you build a 100" Defender on a Disco chassis, it will be registered as a Disco. My chassis carries a VIN from September 1983, and as long as a certain number of mechanical components remain consistent with that year, it's legal. A lot of the body shell on my truck is from newer trucks, a couple of pieces are even new parts, and it has a newer 300TDi engine.

I have no beef with someone wanting to bring in a truck that has some newer parts or modifications. What concerns me is vehicles like the one we were talking about here. It's brand new, and the only "rebuilding" that happened was to swap on an older VIN and "wash" the paperwork. And Florida is well known as a state where it's possible to register questionably legal vehicles. I've seen many "rare" vehicles in Florida over the years that likely came in under US Customs "show and display" rules and managed to get a full registration in Florida.

This truck may have been bought through legitimate means, but it's not legitimate at this point. The galvanised chassis swap is suspicious, because it means there is either no VIN on the chassis, or it has been stamped by the importer. The other two VIN tags on Defenders are held on with rivets, so the one on the brake master will be swapped and the one in the lower corner of the windshield, which wasn't on early trucks, will be removed.

Insurance companies are not likely to notice a few anomalies on an older truck. But if the new owner piles up this truck, and then tries to recover $80k from his insurance company, flags will be raised. Trucks like this could result in US customs and NHTSA clamping down the pipeline to the US, hurting anyone who wants to import a Defender or any other older vehicle. People willing to pay stupid money for a truck like this creates demand that perpetuates theft. Defenders are one of the most stolen vehicles in the UK.

EDIT: An aside on prices -- I have no problems with demand and supply defining the price of an item. But someone who has nearly $100 large to spend on a Defender can go somewhere like ECR and have one built that is legitimate.
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[appropriated from Ren Ching] Most faults can usually be traced to the badge on the grill.
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  #11  
Old May 9th, 2011, 02:48 PM
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Tony,

This debate seems to go on and on and I am not sure what possessed me to comment but here goes. (this is after reading all the threads on imports, good and bad and some very nasty stuff)

I still have not seen an example in the US of trucks being stolen in the rest of the world and sold here. Maybe parts but entire trucks? It might be that every time one pops up it seems to have the owners manual and keys. Questionable import sure? Stolen doubtful. From the 15 pages of threads on imports this is what I have concluded:
1. In the UK you can restore or rebuild a truck and as long as the drivetrain or the frame stay original everything else can change. One thing about the frame, is that if there is damage you can repair and galvanize. It seems that would be why all these trucks have galvanized frames not for some elaborate ruse of their theft. It just hides if the frame is truly from an old truck or just a new one that is stamped.
2. Even though this makes the truck legal in the UK it does not make it legal to import since technically you can not import any new diesel engine from Land Rover according to the EPA. I would assume these trucks just slip in???
3. As far as buying a ECR truck, if you look at their website and look at the orange one, it would appear that truck is a ROW truck as well or they are charging a million dollars for it since buying every part separate even with a substantial discount, would be cost prohibitive. The big difference is it has a NAS VIN instead of a 83 and an amazing bit of custom paint and parts. I would like to see how that truck is anymore legal than this one on Craigslist. Last I checked any new 300 TDI was illegal. With that said, why are we debating it anyway? There are so many loop holes and good for people to figure them out to bring in some different trucks or build their dream vehicles. I only got involved since the whole stolen thing sounds like misinformation perpetuated by rumors and a lack of knowledge.
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  #12  
Old May 9th, 2011, 02:48 PM
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There are several companies here that buy old knackers, then get a new vehicle and just do a chassis swap.

I suppose in theory it's just an old VIN rebuilt on a new chassis with new bodywork and engine etc

However, it's where the new vehicles come from that's the problem... once they've been stripped, the old chassis having the VIN removed and a fresh plate welded over, then the whole shebang shotblasted and galvanised, then exported; it's a bloody hard job to track them then.

OK, not ALL companies are like that (James French for one, have an exceedingly good rep), but Berkshire LR on the other hand don't, eventhough they just had a 3 page spread in this months comic, a friend of mine used to work there until he walked out in disgust at the rip off cowboy attitude they had.

I won't post too much on here so as not to bring the D90 site into trouble, but anyone feel free to PM me and i'll pass on the info that my friend gave me.
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  #13  
Old May 10th, 2011, 02:16 PM
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Saw this http://www.berkshirelandrover.com/do..._feature_1.pdf

Couldn't find any bad press on google. Did find some on Nene though.
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  #14  
Old May 10th, 2011, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TS888 View Post
Hey Matt, I'm not a Brit, I'm a Yank, I just live in the UK (for a few more weeks).

In simple terms, these Puma Defenders being sold under an earlier VIN are illegal. The the law says vehicles over 25 years old may be imported, and the letter of the law implies (maybe even stipulates, Doug Crowther would know) that the vehicle must be substantially original, including the original engine.

There are many Defenders in the UK (and other parts of Europe) that have parts from other trucks, often newer trucks. In the UK, the identity of the vehicle is defined by the chassis -- if you build a 100" Defender on a Disco chassis, it will be registered as a Disco. My chassis carries a VIN from September 1983, and as long as a certain number of mechanical components remain consistent with that year, it's legal. A lot of the body shell on my truck is from newer trucks, a couple of pieces are even new parts, and it has a newer 300TDi engine.

I have no beef with someone wanting to bring in a truck that has some newer parts or modifications. What concerns me is vehicles like the one we were talking about here. It's brand new, and the only "rebuilding" that happened was to swap on an older VIN and "wash" the paperwork. And Florida is well known as a state where it's possible to register questionably legal vehicles. I've seen many "rare" vehicles in Florida over the years that likely came in under US Customs "show and display" rules and managed to get a full registration in Florida.

This truck may have been bought through legitimate means, but it's not legitimate at this point. The galvanised chassis swap is suspicious, because it means there is either no VIN on the chassis, or it has been stamped by the importer. The other two VIN tags on Defenders are held on with rivets, so the one on the brake master will be swapped and the one in the lower corner of the windshield, which wasn't on early trucks, will be removed.

Insurance companies are not likely to notice a few anomalies on an older truck. But if the new owner piles up this truck, and then tries to recover $80k from his insurance company, flags will be raised. Trucks like this could result in US customs and NHTSA clamping down the pipeline to the US, hurting anyone who wants to import a Defender or any other older vehicle. People willing to pay stupid money for a truck like this creates demand that perpetuates theft. Defenders are one of the most stolen vehicles in the UK.

EDIT: An aside on prices -- I have no problems with demand and supply defining the price of an item. But someone who has nearly $100 large to spend on a Defender can go somewhere like ECR and have one built that is legitimate.
The vehicle in Question is Legal, as i know who built it. It was rebuilt on a 25yr old restored galvanised chassis usfrom the donor vehicle. It is not Illegal to do this to any vehicle in the UK, BUT it is illlegal for UK roads as the vehicle has been to heavily modified to pass the SVO test points system, and therefor is only good for export. In order to get a title in most states the vin has to be inspected, California Highway patrol inspected and passed the vehicle I made to the same spec and it now resides in california.

To build a vehicle like this leagally in the USA costs over $80,000. And none will be totally legal as the tdi engines are not EPA complient.

The import risks are why I now rebuild all my newer spec Defenders in the USA. These are all rebuilt on either refurbished galvanised 25yr old chassis or refurbished galvanised nas 110 chassis.
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  #15  
Old May 10th, 2011, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by globallandrovers View Post
The import risks are why I now rebuild all my newer spec Defenders in the USA. These are all rebuilt on either refurbished galvanised 25yr old chassis or refurbished galvanised nas 110 chassis.
Do you have any pics of one of the 25 year old trucks or NAS 110s you have done here yet?
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  #16  
Old May 11th, 2011, 01:10 AM
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[appropriated from Ren Ching] Most faults can usually be traced to the badge on the grill.
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This is straight out of the Manual for Build Builders.
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  #17  
Old May 11th, 2011, 03:14 AM
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not yet., the process will be the same as in the UK. but we only build to order. its not cost effective to do it any other way.
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  #18  
Old May 11th, 2011, 01:14 PM
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Julian

Did you buy the 6k truck? It would have made a great platform for a restore.
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Old May 11th, 2011, 01:17 PM
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haha
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Old May 11th, 2011, 01:32 PM
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