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  #41  
Old April 11th, 2013, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_lucas View Post

First let me say I do not know you Clay or Barry other than your posts on this site, but from what I have seen this is my observation.

Maybe it is the fact that the way you are operating comes across as deceptive douchebaggery akin to a dirt bag used car salesman that will say anything or do anything to make a buck?

When everything went down in your registry you said that you purchased it for yourself to keep in your collection and that you were not planning to sell it and in this thread you say.

So why not just be honest and forthright from the beginning? You saw a chance to flip a truck and make some money why say that you purchased it to keep in your personal collection? When Barry offered to buy it you said no it is not going to be for sale why not just tell him that you were going to flip it for XXX amount and if he wanted to purchase it great if not then too bad?

Additionally the way you use the registry as your own personal auto trader just seems wrong for some reason, seems it should be there for people to share their personal vehicles but you use it to get the publicity and the free ad space and delete anything you do not want others to see.

You never post a truck for sale on this site but every time someone posts a wanted ad you jump in offer your trucks, nothing wrong with that just comes across as deceptive like you are trying to avoid listing an Ad, Price or info and just want to stay in the shadows.

All of this just adds up to a general feeling that you are not a member of the community and just a dirtbag car salesman trying make a buck.

Act like a dirtbag used car salesman = get treated like a dirtbag used car salesman
Act like a member of the community = get treated like a member of the community

There are several people in car sales that are on this site that are standup members of the community and you could learn a thing or two from them… that is if you want to be that kind of guy
Well this will not come as much of a shocker but I don't agree with your view of the situation or your opinion. You're the first person that's ever called me a dirt bag or deceiving. I also don't think I ever said I was buying this for a personal collection but it is hard to prove a negative so I'm fucked there I guess. A used car salesman. Well that's true; I've sold a few used cars. I've bought and sold cars starting before I was old enough to drive. And before that I built bikes and sold bikes to guys in my neighborhood. I'm normally not ashamed of it per se but the way you frame it I'm sure others will now have a pretty poor opinion of me and what I've done as a side hobby.

In closing, I have to share that I've been ripped off and highly disappointed with stuff I've bought from others but I've never aired it out on this board. I figure thats my cross to bare. I always choose to communicate openly with the person and express why I was shocked or disappointed. I also don't know of a single person that has bought from me and been disappointed. In fact I have a 110 soft top for sale on this forum right now that I sold to a guy and later repurchased it because his family situation had changed and he sounded like he needed help. The way it looks ill lose some money on the overall deal but you won't hear me crying about it.

The good thing that comes from all of this is now we know why some are so angry at how all this has gone down and how I participate on the forum. By all means take a look at my other posts too and if you feel I've been less than a worthy citizen please let me know. I'm not above learning and changing where it makes sense. I help with advice from my personal experiences when I can and I sell stuff.

Clay

------ Follow up post added April 11th, 2013 12:11 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
Also need to be careful with flipping cars. In PA you are limited to 3 a year before you have to get a dealer license and you may have tax issues.
Yep, fully aware of the regulations in Virginia and I'm confident I'm okay from a federal and state perspective. Thanks

Clay
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  #42  
Old April 11th, 2013, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1of40 View Post
I also don't think I ever said I was buying this for a personal collection but it is hard to prove a negative so I'm fucked there I guess. Clay
In the registry before you deleted it but kind of hard to prove now since it was deleted

FWIW Clay I never called you a dirtbag car salesman, dishonest or anything else, you asked why people hate you (doubt anyone hates you it is just the internet so who cares) I was just trying to point out that people may perceive the way you have done things and make assumptions.

Just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions
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  #43  
Old April 11th, 2013, 12:58 PM
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Nope, i would be shocked if Someone can show that i said i was buying for a personal collection. That's not me. That's pompous as shit.

I also didn't ask why people hate me. My question was why is that guy so angry. His posts seem angry. At least to me they seem angry.

I'd be lying if I said these remarks don't concern me. I don't see it as just Internet and therefore it shouldn't matter. I'm one way on and off the Internet so it matters.

I've been wrong before and I know what that feels like. This doesn't feel like that at all so at the end of the day it's not bothering me in that sense.

Clay
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  #44  
Old April 11th, 2013, 01:19 PM
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Sorry.. replace hate with angry same point

Apparently you have everything figured out and are at peace with yourself so pay no attention to the things I posted as they are of no use to you.
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  #45  
Old April 11th, 2013, 01:27 PM
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Dave, you played a major part in my figuring things out and coming to peace with it. Thanks!

Clay
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  #46  
Old April 11th, 2013, 01:37 PM
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That's hard Dave.

We're tough on people who pick up vehicles in the US do wax jobs and put them up for sale for $20k more.

But it ain't easy dealing overseas and taking the risk of importing. The value if something like this is very different here to the UK.
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  #47  
Old April 11th, 2013, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1of40 View Post
I also didn't ask why people hate me. My question was why is that guy so angry. His posts seem angry. At least to me they seem angry.

Clay
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1of40 View Post
Can you help me understand why this all makes you so angry? I haven't figured out yet what im doing wrong. If you don't mind just spell it out real simple so I can understand why you are so angry that I've bought a few nice Rovers for resell? Hopefully you can teach me something I don't fully understand.

Clay
Dude - it's not angry, it's annoyed. As has been mentioned, you've used the registry to advertise the trucks you're flipping, multiple times, and used the loophole of being able to delete registry entries to erase your tracks and comments. I'm not a Moderator, but come on, use the For Sale - Vehicles, or Flea Market. It's annoying that you used the loophole, and are pretending like it's no big deal.

You're flipping a truck, which is great, god bless you for providing this service. And yes, this may be my problem more than yours, but at least go through the effort to write your own ad, take your own pictures. I'm not kidding, when I saw your eBay ad I thought it was one of those scams because the ad was identical to the UK ad from February. Think of the buyer who discovers that the pictures of the truck he's buying were taking months ago in another country. In three months it could have been driven 20,000 miles, repainted, chopped, lowered, and converted to a soft-top with 20" spinners. It's just courtesy to the prospective buyers to be transparent about your listings.

Finally, it's the little things: You own the truck, right? You are an owner. You imported it and I assume had to title it, you are an owner. And the guy who sold the truck on eBay, was he the original owner, or did he buy it from the original owner? If he wasn't the original owner, he was an owner. Unless I buy a brand new vehicle from a dealer, there is no "0 previous owners".

It's these sorts of things that make people skeptical. Again, I'm not mad, it's just annoying sales tactics, I could expand on how annoying sales tactics reflect on you, but Dave has done that already.
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  #48  
Old April 11th, 2013, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
That's hard Dave.

We're tough on people who pick up vehicles in the US do wax jobs and put them up for sale for $20k more.

But it ain't easy dealing overseas and taking the risk of importing. The value if something like this is very different here to the UK.
Who me?

My 90 was purchased abroad with only internet pictures so I know what it is like, I went through the hassle and would expect to make some money if I were to sell it.

I could care less if he sells it for 100K and only paid 10K, I am one of the people that always say more power to someone if they can make a buck and have stood up for people doing so.

I was simply pointing out that his sales tatics and the way he has acted may be why people are on his case and think he is suspect in his dealings.
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  #49  
Old April 11th, 2013, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
That's hard Dave.

We're tough on people who pick up vehicles in the US do wax jobs and put them up for sale for $20k more.

But it ain't easy dealing overseas and taking the risk of importing. The value if something like this is very different here to the UK.
Thanks Rocky. Sweat, Consignor's are lower in ethical Rover resell rankings than me then?

Clay
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  #50  
Old April 11th, 2013, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by founD90 View Post
Dude - it's not angry, it's annoyed. As has been mentioned, you've used the registry to advertise the trucks you're flipping, multiple times, and used the loophole of being able to delete registry entries to erase your tracks and comments. I'm not a Moderator, but come on, use the For Sale - Vehicles, or Flea Market. It's annoying that you used the loophole, and are pretending like it's no big deal.

You're flipping a truck, which is great, god bless you for providing this service. And yes, this may be my problem more than yours, but at least go through the effort to write your own ad, take your own pictures. I'm not kidding, when I saw your eBay ad I thought it was one of those scams because the ad was identical to the UK ad from February. Think of the buyer who discovers that the pictures of the truck he's buying were taking months ago in another country. In three months it could have been driven 20,000 miles, repainted, chopped, lowered, and converted to a soft-top with 20" spinners. It's just courtesy to the prospective buyers to be transparent about your listings.

Finally, it's the little things: You own the truck, right? You are an owner. You imported it and I assume had to title it, you are an owner. And the guy who sold the truck on eBay, was he the original owner, or did he buy it from the original owner? If he wasn't the original owner, he was an owner. Unless I buy a brand new vehicle from a dealer, there is no "0 previous owners".

It's these sorts of things that make people skeptical. Again, I'm not mad, it's just annoying sales tactics, I could expand on how annoying sales tactics reflect on you, but Dave has done that already.
I would address you by name but you've not listed it. I also don't know where Woody Creek is exactly but I hope its a great place to live, raise a family and be a productive member of society.

Re the delete on the registry: I deleted that because the rants I thought it were harmful to the board and didn't make sense. I did take your advice and removed the fore sale in the header. That made sense and I saw your point. But when your rants kept coming I decided to leave them up. Check it out. I figure hopefully a reasonable person will be able to decifer what you say makes little to no sense.

But hey, at the end of the day, if all this advice re how I should act on this forum makes the forum a better place and as a result draws more participants to share their advice and experieinces then that's a good thing. I hope that matters more to you than whether I sell a Rover absent a full frame up restoration.

Clay
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  #51  
Old April 11th, 2013, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1of40 View Post
Re the delete on the registry: I deleted that because the rants I thought it were harmful to the board and didn't make sense. I did take your advice and removed the fore sale in the header. That made sense and I saw your point. But when your rants kept coming I decided to leave them up. Check it out. I figure hopefully a reasonable person will be able to decifer what you say makes little to no sense.

Clay
OK, maybe bullet points will help explain this, because you clearly did not understand what was annoying about your actions.
  • The registry is not a for-sale section. Nobody but you has used it as such (or as blatantly)
  • Removing a "for sale" from the header is not moving your post to the appropriate spot on the forum
  • The registry is the only area of the forum that allows the original poster to delete their post, which is bad for the community.

IMO, this should have simply been something the Moderators informed you of, and we could all move on. Unfortunately, this was not the case.

Still with me?

Re: your eBay posting on the truck that started this post:
  • You completely plagiarized the listing of the guy in the UK who sold you the truck.
  • These are not very nice tactics.

Re-read what Dave posted, I agree with everything he said.

Good luck selling that truck, it's very nice.
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  #52  
Old April 11th, 2013, 03:58 PM
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Thanks, that's helpful.

I saw/got your point re For Sale in the registry and that was removed a long time ago. (That was right after I paid for the truck and started working on getting it to Baltimore. Takes like a month to complete the full circle so there's some real business risk.) So hopefully you'll give me some credit for that next time if I ever make another forum error.

The vehicle for sale section is for those willing to state a sales price publically and then wait for it to be picked apart. Hasn't directly happened to me but I see it happen and I don't think it makes sense. I don't think I'm alone on this one BTW. I point out again, I have a vehicle in the For Sale section and it has been there for weeks I think.

Re: Not nice tactics and plaigarism i dont have anything meaningful to say other than the ad had the data I wanted to portray and the pics seem fair and accurate which i think is the most important. BTW, the Seller, Dill, fully understood i was buying to resell and had no problem with it or my use of his pix and description.

I did read Dave's post and what i pulled from him was my way of selling is like unto a Dirtbag Used Car Salesman. I've never sold a vehicle to a D90 member. But occasionally I will see a Wanted post and respond with what I have available but I guess what Dave is saying is that's a Dirtbag move on my part. I've seen it happen a lot. In fact Dave himself responded to a Parts Wanted ad today cause Kenny is looking for some Rockware stuff. I have the same parts (actually the whole set he's looking for) but did i step in and say I'll sell them to him? Nope, that' not cool IMO. Seems to me Dave is doing exactly what i've done with trucks but with parts.

Clay
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  #53  
Old April 11th, 2013, 04:30 PM
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You know Clay, I have tried to be nice and really have no dog in this fight, I was honestly just trying to answer the question YOU ASKED.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1of40 View Post
Can you help me understand why this all makes you so angry? I haven't figured out yet what im doing wrong. If you don't mind just spell it out real simple so I can understand why you are so angry that I've bought a few nice Rovers for resell? Hopefully you can teach me something I don't fully understand. Clay
Maybe I did not spell it out simple enough for you?

My point was that the way you try to sell your trucks on the down low hanging in the shadows, never posting details or photos, using the registry and dropping into the wanted section (pssst hey I have a defender for sale) may come across fishy to some and they may think things are not on the up and up as it is just odd. You know kind of like the guy they warn you about on the news that sells cars on the original title in the parking lot without a dealers Licenses...

I never said it was wrong for you to do business this way, go for it I could care less as that is your deal, but when you operate shrouded in mystery people have to come to their own conclusion as they have no other choice so do not get upset when they do so.

As for me posting that I have something that someone wanted in the wanted section feel free to sell him what you have if he wants it because I do not care, I just happen to have the extra parts sitting in my garage unused and he wants them win / win. And yes they are posted for sale on this site and I have made my price clear and my intentions clear, he knows exactly what to expect from me.

My integrity means something to me, I am old fashion that way I suppose. I call it like I see it and do not pull any punches regardless of who the person is. I doubt that you could find one person on this board or any other rover board that I have had a transaction with that would have anything negative to say about me as I am that kind of guy.
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  #54  
Old April 11th, 2013, 04:37 PM
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I don't know what you two have up your ass. If you have issues with Clay keep it off-line.

This is not helping anyone.

This thread is useless.
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  #55  
Old April 11th, 2013, 04:40 PM
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Yep. Not like the guy with the eel up his ass. THAT is some useful info.
This is just funny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dro View Post
I don't know what you two have up your ass. If you have issues with Clay keep it off-line.

This is not helping anyone.

This thread is useless.
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  #56  
Old April 11th, 2013, 04:44 PM
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Fixed it for you

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dro View Post
I don't know what you two have up your ass. If you have issues with Clay keep it off-line.

This is not helping anyone.

This thread is useless without Eel.
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  #57  
Old April 11th, 2013, 04:53 PM
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Look, it was entertaining when Barry was playing the "sarcastic card" at the beginning of this thread, but now things have deteriorated into an attack-fest for whatever reason. There is certainly risk buying a truck sight-unseen, let alone buying overseas...that much needs to be acknowledged, and a risk that Clay is taking that many of us are not or will not. Hell, I recently bought an RRC here in the states sight-unseen and it turned out to be a complete pile of garbage...the risk is there folks, and that was domestic much less something across the pond. It's an expensive gamble.

If you want to bust chops for the whole "Barry's 110" that's one thing, but I'm not sure why this degraded into assuming Clay has had "negative transactions" selling trucks (or anything) to people. In fact, the only reason I have my NAS 90 is that Clay was kind enough to connect me directly with the owner of the truck at the time...worked out to be a good fit for me (since I was looking) and the previous owner (since he wasn't using the truck barely at all it was just sitting).
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  #58  
Old April 11th, 2013, 04:59 PM
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Fixed it for you
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  #59  
Old April 11th, 2013, 05:20 PM
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Sorry if I was being too mean Clay must have been the Eel
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  #60  
Old April 11th, 2013, 05:21 PM
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Wow, it has been a busy day.
Clay, keep finding and bringing in these clean original trucks for all of us to enjoy stateside at events and in these forums. More power to you and I hope you make a few bucks for your efforts. You are the one taking 100% of the risk and doing 100% of the work.
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