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  #1  
Old April 26th, 2013, 02:15 PM
MMC415
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How is this possible.....

There is a 2007 Defender 110 on eBay that says it's legal in the US and currently titled in AZ. How is that possible given all we've heard about the DOT/EPA process?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-...t_33071wt_1165
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  #2  
Old April 26th, 2013, 02:16 PM
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Already being discussed in the Flea Market. Welcome. Where are you in NYC? A bunch of us NYC guys get together for happy hours from time to time. If you're interested, subscribe to the thread over here:

http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...=24509&page=25
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  #3  
Old April 26th, 2013, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMC415 View Post
There is a 2007 Defender 110 on eBay that says it's legal in the US and currently titled in AZ. How is that possible given all we've heard about the DOT/EPA process?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-...t_33071wt_1165

Just because 'they say' its legal, does not make it so. Having a title, etc. also does not make it legal, just 'undiscovered' (yet) if you want to look at it that way.
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  #4  
Old April 26th, 2013, 03:27 PM
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He does in fact have a clear Az title- had him scan it to me, but as Ian says- doesn't put you in the clear by a long shot!!
Now a title with EPA/DOT approval stickers would be a different story ;-)
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  #5  
Old April 26th, 2013, 05:58 PM
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That is a very sketchy vehicle. The 2007 Puma updated dash but other bits are not 2007? Td5 in a 2007? Smells like a breakers botched job. I have to think whenever that vehicle gets registered and DMV cannot find VIN sequence and/or model in database, there is no way its getting tags.
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Old April 26th, 2013, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmac View Post
That is a very sketchy vehicle. The 2007 Puma updated dash but other bits are not 2007? Td5 in a 2007? Smells like a breakers botched job. I have to think whenever that vehicle gets registered and DMV cannot find VIN sequence and/or model in database, there is no way its getting tags.

It's not a Td5, it has a 2.4 Tdci "Puma" engine in it therefore is correct for a 2007 ROW.....not that makes it any more or less legal however.


The listing says its a 5 cylinder, but the photos definitely show the 4 cylinder Tdci under the bonnet/hood.
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Old April 26th, 2013, 06:47 PM
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simple- pull a carfax on it. It should show the import/entry date if there was one. If not it will pop up with the title being the first history.
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Old April 26th, 2013, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael110 View Post
It's not a Td5, it has a 2.4 Tdci "Puma" engine in it therefore is correct for a 2007 ROW.....not that makes it any more or less legal however.


The listing says its a 5 cylinder, but the photos definitely show the 4 cylinder Tdci under the bonnet/hood.
It's not a 2.4L Puma. Its definitely a 5, look at fuel rail. It certainly doesnt look like a Td5 but its 5 cylinders. I was thinking it was possibly Mbz OM612/647 but oil fliter housing missing and fuel rail is different. Did Ford ever produce a 5 cylinder 'Puma' family engine? I know there are several 4's and 6's, Ford calls them Duratorq but was not aware of a 5. Whatever, would be awesome if it was a legal vehicle but unfortunately our government is saving us from ourselves, http://www.defendersource.com/forum/.../whistling.gif
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Old April 26th, 2013, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by bigmac View Post
IDid Ford ever produce a 5 cylinder 'Puma' family engine? I know there are several 4's and 6's, Ford calls them Duratorq but was not aware of a 5.
The duratorq 3.2 is an I5 engine and has been epa approved but with a bunch of mods to make it burn clean.

fwiw -looks like a 2.4 to me. Forget what the 5th injector line is for....
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  #10  
Old April 26th, 2013, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmac View Post
It's not a 2.4L Puma. Its definitely a 5, look at fuel rail. It certainly doesnt look like a Td5 but its 5 cylinders. I was thinking it was possibly Mbz OM612/647 but oil fliter housing missing and fuel rail is different. Did Ford ever produce a 5 cylinder 'Puma' family engine? I know there are several 4's and 6's, Ford calls them Duratorq but was not aware of a 5. Whatever, would be awesome if it was a legal vehicle but unfortunately our government is saving us from ourselves, http://www.defendersource.com/forum/.../whistling.gif
If you look carefully at the fuel rail in the picture, you see that moving left to right, the first two pipes and the last two pipes go under the plastic cover to the injectors, the center pipe of the five bends to run underneath the front two to level with the oil filler cap, then drops down the side of the engine. Cant remember exactly how it is set up but would speculate its an excess fuel run off from the injectors back to the injector pump maybe?
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Old April 26th, 2013, 08:58 PM
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Puma 2.4 common rail diesel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael110 View Post
If you look carefully at the fuel rail in the picture... would speculate its an excess fuel run off from the injectors back to the injector pump maybe?
Am no expert, but looks to me like a Puma 2.4 common rail diesel. The 5th port is the return off the high pressure rail.
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  #12  
Old April 26th, 2013, 09:49 PM
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That's 100% no doubt a 2.4 puma...
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Old April 26th, 2013, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
The duratorq 3.2 is an I5 engine and has been epa approved but with a bunch of mods to make it burn clean.
...
Maybe the 3.2 Duratorq is the only diesel we should drop into the defender....
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Old April 26th, 2013, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
The duratorq 3.2 is an I5 engine and has been epa approved but with a bunch of mods to make it burn clean.

fwiw -looks like a 2.4 to me. Forget what the 5th injector line is for....
We have a winner! Here's pic of the Duratorq 3.2L I-5.

You would not have hp return like that on CR system, pressure reg is at pump on the Bosch CR systems. If it had unit injectors, like the older VW TDI's or Ford Powerstrokes then you have return feed from rail.

Edit: Apparently I am clueless on attaching images so here's link. http://www.greencarcongress.com/2012...-20121210.html If you click the engine image it will show reasonably resolution of lh side of motor. Cheers
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Old April 27th, 2013, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Rocky View Post

Maybe the 3.2 Duratorq is the only diesel we should drop into the defender....
It appears this power plant is new to NA market. Actually not here yet, ford commercial is planning on importing in 2014. It's produced in South Africa so importing would be very $$. That said, the torque curve is delicious! Looks like a Cummins ISB. I would not trust an r380 behind that motor. Don't know much about mt82 LR uses behind the 2.4 Puma. If that's insufficient, a t5 or tko could be adapted but we're talking even more $.

My Buick v8 maybe thirsty & gutless but until the EPA lets me put a Benz oil burner in, I'll stick with her.
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Old April 27th, 2013, 12:38 AM
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Nah, I'm sorry, its a 2.4 Tdci, we ran a fleet of 8 2007 2.4tdci's when I worked in the UK, and dealt with enough leaking vacuum pumps on them to know that that looks exactly like a 2.4tdci engine should in a defender. Also, the "3.2" picture from the green car congress transit article that was posted actually shows a four cylinder engine, with only five pipes from the common rail, just like in the 2007 Defender pictures shown. Below is a picture of a 3.2 five cylinder installed in a Defender, by Nene Overland's Icon project. You will see there are six pipes coming off the top of the common rail, not five. So, five pipes = 4 cylinders, 6 pipes = 5 cylinders.

http://www.defendericon.com/land-rov...e-conversions/
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Old April 27th, 2013, 04:21 AM
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This vehicle is likely to be a 2007 car on a pre-1988 chassis.

Companies like Berkshire Land Rover just buy a knackered car that is legal to import on age grounds, buy a new chassis from Richards and then swap the body and Running gear over accordingly.

they then swap the id tags over,dispose of the original chassis, sell the rest of it for spares and hey presto you have a 'restored and updated' car that is in fact new.

Here is an example from them

http://www.blr4x4.com/details.php?LI...image_id=11481
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Old April 27th, 2013, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffman View Post
This vehicle is likely to be a 2007 car on a pre-1988 chassis.

Companies like Berkshire Land Rover just buy a knackered car that is legal to import on age grounds, buy a new chassis from Richards and then swap the body and Running gear over accordingly.

they then swap the id tags over,dispose of the original chassis, sell the rest of it for spares and hey presto you have a 'restored and updated' car that is in fact new.

Here is an example from them

http://www.blr4x4.com/details.php?LI...image_id=11481

Not into the US anymore.
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Old April 27th, 2013, 08:33 AM
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Thanks Griff,

Berkshire is only one of a handful of operates (mostly in the UK, but 1 or 2 in the Netherlands) who have figured out that there is this tremendous unmet demand from the US for Defenders and the more we're told we can't have them, the more we want them! So it's almost a given that DOT/EA's 25 year old car 21 year old engine rule will be used as n opportunity. I actually think it's a great idea.

The question here is....how did a 6 year old car sneak in?....and can any US citizen buy it, register it in their home state? get tags? get insurance?
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Old April 27th, 2013, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by MMC415 View Post
Thanks Griff,

Berkshire is only one of a handful of operates (mostly in the UK, but 1 or 2 in the Netherlands) who have figured out that there is this tremendous unmet demand from the US for Defenders and the more we're told we can't have them, the more we want them! So it's almost a given that DOT/EA's 25 year old car 21 year old engine rule will be used as n opportunity. I actually think it's a great idea.

The question here is....how did a 6 year old car sneak in?....and can any US citizen buy it, register it in their home state? get tags? get insurance?
The real question is are you willing to take a chance on something that is legally questionable?
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