Not so small project - 6BT and other mods - Page 2 - Defender Source
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  #21  
Old March 21st, 2011, 01:49 PM
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Tony Lawson
1986 D110 ex-200tdi to be 6BT
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*beat head here*

swayed the motor/tranny assembly in this weekend. LOTS of room. (no surprise to some. It's a game of 1/8"s). After removing the AC compressor, the intake horn, the air brake compressor, the oil filler, the heater hose neck, and everything else sticking out - it's finally getting close to 'fitting'.

length is an issue. The front harmonic balancer and the front cross member are far enough apart (1-1/4") to allow me to change the s-belt, but that's about it. At the other end, the shifter stalk is just in front of the battery box. As well as the middle x-member to the t-case - close enough that I'm not sure I can remove the t-case independently of half removing the motor. I'm going to try push the assembly it even further forward and possible modify the front x-member to allow harmonic balancer removal (and subsequent service of the motor front end gear train without pulling the engine).

Height is an issue - particularly at the very front valve cover and mid-engine at the air horn (probably build a custom one of those...). Also on the Pside at the steering box. If I can get a little more height, I can possibly get the oem steering box back in - else I have to consider the fit of a p38 box (which has it's advantages).

on the plus side, going so far forward and up, I think I can avoid modifying the bulkhead. But pretty much a custom tunnel cover for sure....

to get all that forward and up....looks like a Puma hood is needed. great. Anyone need a standard hood? good condition.

and no, my hood is not pee green underneath - it's usually white.
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  #22  
Old March 21st, 2011, 02:41 PM
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steve
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I just noticed your build thread.
Looking great Tony.

I'm amazed you wont have to alter the bulkhead, that is one thing that will be easier than expected!

If a puma hood fits your in buisness....now there is just everything else

Looks like the compressor is still attached... will it fit?
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  #23  
Old March 21st, 2011, 05:23 PM
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Tony Lawson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D90user View Post
Looks like the compressor is still attached... will it fit?
Hey Steve - compressor is out for now. In the first pic on the bottom you can see a blanking plate. It may still fit in the end, but this gives me room to work and get to the mounts. Doubt it'd fit with the P38 box, but if I get the height, it may work with the stock steering box. If not, a vacuum pump and the p-steering pump will go in there. I'd have to run a compressor off the NV's PTO port (I don't think I can get my LT PTO on with the way things are stacking up)

found the rear oil pick up on e-bay. At least that's been 'easy'
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  #24  
Old March 23rd, 2011, 02:53 PM
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You dont need a puma hood... you need this:
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...&postcount=411
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  #25  
Old March 30th, 2011, 04:28 PM
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Interesting - I ran mine 2-3 inches lower than that and further back I think, but ou need a scout or P38 box (worth it). The rear valve cover is 1/4 inch from the bulkhead on mine, where is yours?. I went as far back and high as could with a flat hood but it means more bulkhead mods (Series bulkhead). Find an air horn from a 1st gen dodge, it should be shorter.

Wit an auto it was a real mess, with all the extra linkage and cooler and lines. This looks great.
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  #26  
Old March 30th, 2011, 04:34 PM
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My first 110 had a Toyota 2h. A big long 4 liter six cyl diesel. The front cross member was actually notched to make room for the engines length. Its was well done and didn't seem to have been much of or any strength compromise.....
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  #27  
Old March 30th, 2011, 06:16 PM
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Tony Lawson
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JL - yeah, I recall you saying you were right up against your bulkhead and I was trying to go that way. Right now I have a good 3" at the bulkhead - which has it's advantages - but the length of the NV puts it's shifter assembly into my battery box if I move back. Trying not to go there, as it starts to be a mess....plus the bellhousing starts to hit all around when I get back in that area (not as big a deal, already in for a custom tunnel). The auto must be a little shorter - and probably doesn't have that big shifter hump the NV has at it's back end. I'm also really concerned I won't be able to pull the t-case independent of the whole drive train because I'm getting close to the mid x-member. Pretty sure I can release the tranny mount/x-member and lower the back end, then pull the t-case. But TBD.

Doug - I was considering that notch as well. Not so much to allow clearance, but for service. Looks like I can avoid it for now. About 1" off the front x-member gives just enough room to pull the balancer and work on the front end.

It's a long assembly

Definitely need a p38 box though...

Steve - I'm gonna find one of those aberrations and come glue it to the hood of your ambo in the middle of the night and take plenty of pics just for posting that.
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  #28  
Old March 31st, 2011, 12:28 PM
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Battery box in the seatbox? I hate to armchair qback but can you lower the drivetrain a bit? I am switching to an NV and it fits under the seatbox (series). Maybe you can alter the battery box? It just seems to me like the further you get that massive oilpan away from the front axle, the better, and it will help with weight dist.

The NV is shorter overall than the auto but it is fatter. Timm Cooper used to reverse the top shift cover but it requires major machining. I might try this to move the shifter forwards.
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  #29  
Old April 7th, 2011, 01:55 PM
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Hey JL - no worries about arm chairing. All insights welcome - hell, you just got me looking at reversing my shifter cover (symetric pattern, so there must have been a design reason or even a reversed build. Still working on getting my head around what gets modified to make it work. Not trivial)

No, no battery box issue - sorry for the confusion - just the seat box. Yeah, I can tip the motor back and get the cover under the middle seatbox, but the shifter is too far back - so back to that cover flip idea. I'm looking at moving the motor back as you suggest - but it means cutting the bulkhead all around right up to the fuse box. I have to cut it anyway on the right side, so I guess in for penny....curious if you had to mod the series bulkhead much? I also have the starter right up against the LH box at the fuel pedal. Don't want to mod into that area....but if I shift anymore right, the t-case hits the right frame rail. fun.
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  #30  
Old April 7th, 2011, 05:21 PM
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I had to enlarge the transmission hump opening quite a bit, but I did not have to alter either footwells. I think the earlier SII/SIIA bulkhead makes it an easier swap, but the biggest issue is the starter.

I presume you are using a stock NV4500/6BT adapter plate from a 94+ Dodge. I believe this places that starter out further than the adapter plate from a 1989-1993 1st gen Dodge, which is the one I use. I also use a bellhousing from a Getrag G360 transmission, adapted to the NV4500 (couple of holes redrilled). With this setup, the engine fits between the footwells and the transfer case can be positioned about 1" off the right side frame rail. Everything clears with just enough room. The engine ends up offset to the driver's side slightly, but that works wonders for the turbo location.

You might be able to work something out for the starter, but if you end up needing photos and measurements of the 1st gen setup, I have the engine on a pallet in the shop, easy to snap a few photos.

I was told by timm that swapping the cover was a real pain. I need to do this too so maybe we can combine our efforts, but I am in the middle of another project and need to finish it before moving on to the LR...
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  #31  
Old April 19th, 2011, 01:34 PM
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Tony Lawson
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Bulkhead Mods.

OK - Bulkhead mods done. (well, some weld dressing to do, but you get the picture)

JL - yes, I'm using the 94-97 standard adapter and bellhousing. The starter could easily be clocked up the motor more (in design) which would be nice. I'm gonna stick with this set-up and just accomodate the starter. I want to do the flipped shifter too - as it puts the shifter almost int he original position. I may just make a whole new cover instead of butchering what I have. I'll keep you posted. Making one is the b****, two and three are easy)

Motor is sitting 3 3/8" back from the front cross member (to front of the harmonic balancer). I have about 1" of room between the bulkhead 'bump' for the electrical fuse block and the head. Gives me room for insulation and sound damping. Any further back and the t-case will hit the cross member at the back of the battery/seat box. I'm pretty much on centerline - this gives me room for the t-case on one side and room (now) for the starter.

Had to mod the bulkhead quite a bit. Moved the left (driver) side wall at the gas pedal 1" out. Also moved the pedal assembly as well. I cut up my LT77 tunnel adapter and welded it to the bulkhead. Had to add 1" in height and 3" in width (last pic shows the difference in the opening size at the tunnel cover) - I'll mod the tunnel cover next. So I'm right up under the fuse box, but it works. Decent clearance all around.

In all, it's not a lot bigger than the R380 hump (I have a bulkehad adapter but no tunnel cover. there's also a d-90 r380 sitting here to compair to) but it's a lot bigger than the little LT77 was for sure. Not as bad as a Humvee hump though.....

My bulkhead is in pretty decent shape. Only rust is where the old RHD clutch master had leaked and rust got to the floor pan a little. Will fix that and then plan on Rhino lining the whole thing front and back. More on that latter.
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  #32  
Old April 21st, 2011, 10:37 AM
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Looking good Tony! that is a big hurdle. You did that quick.
Are you going to have room to use the mounts that came with the motor?

What does flipping the shifter involve? That is great if it stays in a similar location.
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  #33  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 02:23 PM
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a little more progress.

Welded in some frame reinforcement on each side basically from the engine crossmember up to the steering mount holes. 1/4" plate. Then welded on my motor mounts. basically re-plated the left side outrigger with 14 gauge as it had some rust damage. Also re-did the welds on the right side outrigger replacement as they looked a little sketchy. A few pics to show placement. So far, the stock engine cross member fits without mod. We'll see how long that lasts, because....

Front shot shows clearance between axle and pan (high portion. Lower rear sump is behind the axle) at "HD spring" ride height (red and blue strip and white and yellow strip I beleive). A little tight, so will probably go up 2 more inches. This will be about 3 1/2" total lift with the need to extend the bump stops down 3" or so. Frame is level right now with motor in but no body work, bumper, winch, 100lbs of flywheel and clutch, the innards fo the tranny, the t-case, etc.

Exhaust outlet is right near the bulkhead, so will need to shorten about 1/2" to give a little more room. Trouble will be getting the exhaust and the front driveshaft to occupy pretty much the same area down low. Looking forward to that.

Rhinolined the bulkhead after all the tunnel welding, a little rust clean up, and a thorough wire brushing. A good 1/8" plus is most areas. We have a small Rhino gun here, so makes small jobs like this relatively easy. Cost of material was about $180.

Steve brought me my P38 box, so will need to mount that up next. Few questions there, but will post in Tech Discussions.

Next is re-build of the bulkhead including the install of the Proline heated glass kit from RN and the Mud UK side vents (while i'm in there). Getting tired of doing things three times on this truck, so bitting the bullet and doing it all now while I'm in there. Also will be Tub removal and final clean up of the frame before setting the roll cage mounts and putting things back together.....
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  #34  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 05:53 PM
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sure looks a lot different from when Ren Ching and I first saw it in the snow in Hertfordshire.
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  #35  
Old May 3rd, 2011, 02:28 PM
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the one we tried to fix the heater on in Julian's driveway?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 130Tdi View Post
sure looks a lot different from when Ren Ching and I first saw it in the snow in Hertfordshire.
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  #36  
Old May 3rd, 2011, 04:18 PM
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the one we tried to fix the heater on in Julian's driveway?
that would be the one. Blower motor was completely siezed - but it went with the LHD conversion. Thanks for trying.
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  #37  
Old May 4th, 2011, 01:32 PM
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Dont get me wrong, the truck is going to be a piece of engineering all by it self... But if you can, post a pic of the Anaconda!
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  #38  
Old May 11th, 2011, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D90user View Post
Dont get me wrong, the truck is going to be a piece of engineering all by it self... But if you can, post a pic of the Anaconda!
Steve wants to see my snake.....

This is the large "Queen" snake from the Academy not-Award winning film Anaconda. I was a design engineer for the effects company that did this machine (along with all the Free Willy whales, Deep Blue Sea sharks, The Perfect Storm swordfish and shark, Flipper dolphin and other stuff all the way back tot he whales in Star Trek and the scale subs used in the chase scene in The Abyss). Edge Innovations was a high end robotic effects company during the 90's. CGI pretty much killed us. But we were the best at what we did at the time. But not cheap.

The Anaconda was a 120 degree of freedom robot. 25ft in one direction (Head) and 15ft in the tail direction. 4000 lbs. 5000psi, 300 hp hydraulics with position and pressure feedback at every function. About 7 miles of control wire laced through the mechanism. Each joint was a custom link with two custom cylinders built from 17-4 stainless and contained two hydraulic spool valves at it's heart. We worked with Dyvalve who built a lot of the servo valves for the Saturn rocket engines. They've since been bought out by Parker. The size of each link incrementally decreased as you move further out the snake. At the time (1995-96) it was possibly the most complex robot built. We had Nasa, Boeing, and others look at it after the film, but there was really no commercial application that anyone could see it being rolled into. Very complex, very tempermental. Cost to build: approx 7 million.

Programming motion of the snake was too complex for the lack of patience seen during filming. We would film during the day. Break down. move, and re-set during the late evening, then program until the next morning. Then whatever programming we did would go out the window on the directors whim. We had a "real time waldo" that could control the snake - every joint - real time. But was considered too dangerous to run with Talent within the "Zone of Death" (the radius the head and tail could sweap in the blink of an eye). As a result, the snake was hardly utilized in the film - most of what is seen is only short or head portions....and the rest done with bad CGI.

I helped a little recently to re-condition the mechanism for static display at the Cal Academy of Science in SF. It's currently on display for a few months during a large snakes exhibit they have going. Steve saw the mechinism while it was here at my current company's shop (we are friendly with the former owners of Edge and let them set up here). I didn't get a chance to get too many pics, but I think these shots show some of the craziness.
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  #39  
Old May 11th, 2011, 03:00 PM
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no wonder you think all this rover stuff is childs play
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  #40  
Old May 11th, 2011, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 130Tdi View Post
no wonder you think all this rover stuff is childs play
Hardly! this tranny/LT adaption is a b!tch (especially if I'm going to do a new shifter top).
But really it is not a lot different than what I do day-to-day. It just takes a lot of time that I'm NOT getting paid for!






cough! cough! doors, cough!
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