Long Heater hoses on 200TDi - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Build-up's, Projects & Registry Profiles > Smaller Projects


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old February 8th, 2015, 09:21 AM
BlackField's Avatar
BlackField
Status: Offline
Oscar
D110
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,640
Long Heater hoses on 200TDi

Good morning,

I'm going to take advantage of the warm weather today to get a few things thrown on the truck.

I have planned on putting a rear AC set up in my left rear fender. I already made the brackets and splash guard mounts.

I have two AC condensers one with a heater circuit and one without.

Since I need to design and fabricate a custom bracket/ adapter for the front AC/ Heater set up I was thinking to use the AC/ Heater combo in the rear compartment. Then if all worked out ok return the other condenser for an AC/ heater combo.

My questions are:

- Will the 200TDi ever heat up potentially two heater cores, seems like it always runs cold. I will swap in a new thermostat as part of the install.

- How bad is it to run really long coolant hoses to the rear quarter of my 110? (This truck previously had long coolant hoses heading to a heated gas tank for its, now removed, WVO system)

- Does the water pump care? Should I have an inline electric boost pump involved to help the coolant on its way?

- Or should I try and use the over flow tank, or another reservoir, as the source of coolant and send it rearward via electric pumps?

Here is a drawing of the bracket and the non heater/AC core crammed in the wheel well when i took the first measurements.

Thanks
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2313.jpg
Views:	102
Size:	83.7 KB
ID:	113160   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2015-02-08 at 8.51.45 AM.png
Views:	101
Size:	19.0 KB
ID:	113161  

__________________
Lemmings as you know them are a Disney fabricated lie. The truth is out there.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old February 8th, 2015, 10:30 AM
Overlander's Avatar
Overlander
Status: Offline
mark kellgren
in between D's in an 04 D2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,531
Registry
I think if you have a proper working coolant system that providing sufficient heat to the back wouldn't be an issue. running rubber heater hoses to the rear would scare the living hell out of me though. that is a lot of risk. I would run shaped copper lines from the bulkhead to the rear tucked up in the frame safely that were secured from vibration rubbing risk and sleeved in insulation foam, and just use rubber hose to bridge the gaps and provide flexible coupling.

sounds like a great project though. would love to see a build thread on bespoke rear a/c. it's an under-reported and yet popular topic.
__________________
Mark Kellgren
KM4BOR

ISIL and al qaeda can go F*ck themselves...
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old February 8th, 2015, 10:33 AM
rdavisinva's Avatar
rdavisinva
Status: Offline
Robert Davis
N/A
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 6,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackField View Post
I have two AC condensers one with a heater circuit and one without.
I think you mean evaporator. The condenser is in front of the radiator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackField View Post
My questions are:

- Will the 200TDi ever heat up potentially two heater cores, seems like it always runs cold. I will swap in a new thermostat as part of the install.

- How bad is it to run really long coolant hoses to the rear quarter of my 110? (This truck previously had long coolant hoses heading to a heated gas tank for its, now removed, WVO system)

- Does the water pump care? Should I have an inline electric boost pump involved to help the coolant on its way?

- Or should I try and use the over flow tank, or another reservoir, as the source of coolant and send it rearward via electric pumps?

Here is a drawing of the bracket and the non heater/AC core crammed in the wheel well when i took the first measurements.
If the heater lines are routed with a "T" fitting, that is the coolant is split and rejoins with having to make a right and left turn, then you'll get the required flow to supply adequate heat.
Make sure you have a 195 deg F thermostat.

Long coolant lines should not be a problem as long as the lines don't rupture and ruin the engine, but you'll need some extra help with an in-line pump.
Mercedes diesels use an in-line coolant pump that will help circulate coolant.

A safer, but not as efficient way is to have a separate system filled with antifreeze as you have already entertained, that has a proper pump like from an RV sink or shower that pumps the separate isolated coolant system through FPHE that has engine coolant going in one direction and the coolant from the separate system going in the other.
Then when you switch on the heat, it will also switch on the circulation pump that forces the coolant through the FPHE where it is warmed from engine coolant heat and flows back to your rear heater.
I used something similar for a shower and it worked pretty well if you have a decent 12V pump.
That way if the long line to the heater ruptures, your engine coolant is not effected and you only loose rear heat.

Bracket looks good, but make it out of aluminum.
A steel bracket will eat holes in the body panels... dissimilar metals and all that rot...

Best of luck!
__________________
RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old February 8th, 2015, 10:56 AM
rdavisinva's Avatar
rdavisinva
Status: Offline
Robert Davis
N/A
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 6,798
Oscar:
We have some efficient all aluminum FPHEs.
PM if interested.
You can make your own using copper pipe, but they are bulky and don't work as well.
__________________
RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old February 8th, 2015, 11:25 AM
Overlander's Avatar
Overlander
Status: Offline
mark kellgren
in between D's in an 04 D2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,531
Registry
Brilliant idea Rob!
__________________
Mark Kellgren
KM4BOR

ISIL and al qaeda can go F*ck themselves...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old February 8th, 2015, 03:56 PM
BlackField's Avatar
BlackField
Status: Offline
Oscar
D110
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,640
FPHE FTW. I couldn't possibly do it the other way knowing that that is available. Awesome idea.

So the FPHE would go inside the Rear Heat Reservoir and then an inline electric pump will circulate the heated coolant (still the best heat transfer fluid right?). I like it.

Simple operation: switch turns on inline pump, and a blower control switch takes care of fan speed. Might even give me a means to control icing on the Evaporator (duh) during AC use.

I'll send you a pm about the FPHE.

Thanks guys.
__________________
Lemmings as you know them are a Disney fabricated lie. The truth is out there.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old February 8th, 2015, 04:52 PM
Overlander's Avatar
Overlander
Status: Offline
mark kellgren
in between D's in an 04 D2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,531
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackField View Post
FPHE FTW. I couldn't possibly do it the other way knowing that that is available. Awesome idea.

So the FPHE would go inside the Rear Heat Reservoir and then an inline electric pump will circulate the heated coolant (still the best heat transfer fluid right?). I like it.

Simple operation: switch turns on inline pump, and a blower control switch takes care of fan speed. Might even give me a means to control icing on the Evaporator (duh) during AC use.

I'll send you a pm about the FPHE.

Thanks guys.
on the same separate circuit, you could even run fuel line and fuel tank coolant based heaters. I'm assuming Rob's recommendation on using coolant is because straight water would burst the lines when frozen.
__________________
Mark Kellgren
KM4BOR

ISIL and al qaeda can go F*ck themselves...
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old February 8th, 2015, 05:12 PM
rdavisinva's Avatar
rdavisinva
Status: Offline
Robert Davis
N/A
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 6,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackField View Post
FPHE FTW. I couldn't possibly do it the other way knowing that that is available. Awesome idea.

So the FPHE would go inside the Rear Heat Reservoir and then an inline electric pump will circulate the heated coolant (still the best heat transfer fluid right?). I like it.

Simple operation: switch turns on inline pump, and a blower control switch takes care of fan speed. Might even give me a means to control icing on the Evaporator (duh) during AC use.

I'll send you a pm about the FPHE.

Thanks guys.
You'd want the FPHE under the hood with the long lines sending the second system filled with anti-freeze back to your rear heater core via the 12V RV hot water pump. You would only need to mount a second overflow tank somewhere and because the second system had only the required amount of anti-freeze then it would heat up and stay close to engine temp.
__________________
RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old February 8th, 2015, 06:53 PM
BlackField's Avatar
BlackField
Status: Offline
Oscar
D110
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,640
The AC evaporator has a drain spout. Thats going to take some getting used to. Seeing water dripping out the back of my 110 will probably make me panic about fuel leaks every time I see it.

Here is the AC/ Heater I'm using:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2000_DRAW.jpg
Views:	84
Size:	172.7 KB
ID:	113191  
__________________
Lemmings as you know them are a Disney fabricated lie. The truth is out there.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old February 8th, 2015, 07:05 PM
BlackField's Avatar
BlackField
Status: Offline
Oscar
D110
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,640
I just read up more on the FPHE. I thought that it needed to be submerged in a tank to exchange heat. I just have to install it inline from the coolant reservoir to the heater core. That makes way more sense and I could use any overflow tank like one off a honda civic if I wanted to... right?
__________________
Lemmings as you know them are a Disney fabricated lie. The truth is out there.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old February 8th, 2015, 07:30 PM
Overlander's Avatar
Overlander
Status: Offline
mark kellgren
in between D's in an 04 D2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,531
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackField View Post
I just read up more on the FPHE. I thought that it needed to be submerged in a tank to exchange heat. I just have to install it inline from the coolant reservoir to the heater core. That makes way more sense and I could use any overflow tank like one off a honda civic if I wanted to... right?
sounds right to me, and I don't think it would need to be a very big tank either. your not going to build up much pressure or excess heat through an exchanger. Just make sure you have a way of properly bleeding it, such as having the tank or fill at the high point. air isn't an effective heat transfer medium.
__________________
Mark Kellgren
KM4BOR

ISIL and al qaeda can go F*ck themselves...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old February 8th, 2015, 08:25 PM
rdavisinva's Avatar
rdavisinva
Status: Offline
Robert Davis
N/A
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 6,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackField View Post
I just read up more on the FPHE. I thought that it needed to be submerged in a tank to exchange heat. I just have to install it inline from the coolant reservoir to the heater core. That makes way more sense and I could use any overflow tank like one off a honda civic if I wanted to... right?
Yes that's correct.
Here are pictures of the aluminum FPHE.
I sent a response to your PM.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1067.jpg
Views:	68
Size:	44.4 KB
ID:	113202   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1069.jpg
Views:	69
Size:	44.3 KB
ID:	113203  

__________________
RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old February 11th, 2015, 06:01 PM
BlackField's Avatar
BlackField
Status: Offline
Oscar
D110
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,640
There's no shortage of these kind of metal expansion tanks on eBay:



Here is my first stab at what the system would look like. Any and all ideas and suggestions are welcome.

__________________
Lemmings as you know them are a Disney fabricated lie. The truth is out there.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old February 11th, 2015, 08:42 PM
BlackField's Avatar
BlackField
Status: Offline
Oscar
D110
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,640
Any recommendations for inline pumps?


__________________
Lemmings as you know them are a Disney fabricated lie. The truth is out there.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old February 11th, 2015, 08:48 PM
rdavisinva's Avatar
rdavisinva
Status: Offline
Robert Davis
N/A
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 6,798
Oscar:
I think you would do much better to "T" the source to and from the OEM heater so that the coolant flow is split with a right and left path. Send one to the OEM heater and the other to the FPHE.
Then join them back again afterwords the same way.

Going through the OEM heater first will reduce the efficiency of the FPHE transfer.

You can buy a cheap brass tank from and early 90/110 and easily make a mounting bracket.
They are compact and cheap.
The smaller the tank, the less anti-freeze to discharge and bleed off the heat.
__________________
RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old February 12th, 2015, 08:16 AM
rdavisinva's Avatar
rdavisinva
Status: Offline
Robert Davis
N/A
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 6,798


Oscar:
The FPHE requires input and output on the same side of the unit.
You diagram shows them crossed which will mix the 2 systems, something I don't think you want to do.
__________________
RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old February 12th, 2015, 08:28 AM
BlackField's Avatar
BlackField
Status: Offline
Oscar
D110
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,640
That was an assumption. I'll redraw with the T's in the line to make sure I have it right before I start running hoses or insulated tubes.

How many GPH LPH do you think I need to run? I'm guessing it doesn't need to be very high.
__________________
Lemmings as you know them are a Disney fabricated lie. The truth is out there.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old February 12th, 2015, 09:58 AM
rdavisinva's Avatar
rdavisinva
Status: Offline
Robert Davis
N/A
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 6,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackField View Post
That was an assumption. I'll redraw with the T's in the line to make sure I have it right before I start running hoses or insulated tubes.

How many GPH LPH do you think I need to run? I'm guessing it doesn't need to be very high.
It was so long since I bought all the parts for the shower, had to check.
I sorced a 12V solar hot water circulation pump that was rated to work up to 212 deg F to push the water through the FPHE.
Then have an RV pump to run the shower, something you don't need because you're going anti-freeze to anti-freeze through the FPHE.
The 12V solar hot water pumps are cheap, and suppose to be very durable.
Think this is the one I have:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dc-Brushless...3D321593119614

The pump you found in post 15 should also work fine.
__________________
RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old February 12th, 2015, 10:36 AM
BlackField's Avatar
BlackField
Status: Offline
Oscar
D110
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,640
Ordered the pump.

hows this:

__________________
Lemmings as you know them are a Disney fabricated lie. The truth is out there.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old February 12th, 2015, 10:40 AM
rdavisinva's Avatar
rdavisinva
Status: Offline
Robert Davis
N/A
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 6,798
Oscar:
Close...
The path is top left to bottom left and top right to bottom right.
The flow top to bottom and bottom to top should be in opposite directions.
__________________
RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Build-up's, Projects & Registry Profiles > Smaller Projects

Tags
200tdi, heater, tdi

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
97 NAS D90 heater core hoses blenkush Defender Technical Discussions 1 February 16th, 2014 01:50 PM
200tdi heater hoses tomaco1 Defender Technical Discussions 3 August 30th, 2011 01:15 PM
Heater core hoses Cred Defender Technical Discussions 1 November 29th, 2010 09:53 AM
NAS 110 Heater Hoses Stmpede Defender Technical Discussions 3 March 22nd, 2009 06:37 PM
Cutting off heater hoses on 300Tdi... JFD Defender Technical Discussions 4 September 20th, 2006 09:11 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:58 AM.


Copyright