In line blower for mantec raised air intake system - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old November 4th, 2007, 08:03 PM
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In line blower for mantec raised air intake system

I do alot of dusty high sierra and high desert driving and wanted a raised air intake to reduce the number cleaning cycles on my K&N air filter. I talked with the people at ECR - they don't recommend using a raised air intake due to the reduced performance a V8 experiences. Basically the V8 suffers from "asthma" induced by the air restriction induced by the hose. They said the 4 cyl diesel motors don't suffer from the air restrictions induced by the intake hose. I asked them what they have done to overcome the issue, but they talked about a custom solution but didn't offer to tell me what they did.

I thought about using a an inline fan to pull the air through the hose and thus eliminate the air restriction. My first design used a box fan (like those found in computers) - I thought 39 CFM airflow would do it - no such luck. After designing and proto typing the box to hold the fan and interface with the hose - off vehicle test showed the fan was too weak.

I began looking for a high powered inline fan that was somewhat weather proof. West Marine sells many different bilge in-line blowers to ventilate engine compartments, bilges etc. I selected the DetMar 3" inline blower. It pushes 170 CFM.

Before I could install any of the mantec hardware on my '97 I had to relocate the windshield washer fluid bottle . The stock position was too close to the underhood fuse box to allow the 3" hose to fit. ( I moved it 3" forward down the fender well.)

I acquired and removed the horn from the front cap of the trucks air box (I did not modify my original one just in case I ever intend to run without the raised air intake hooked up. It only takes a minute to swap the front air cleaner caps out).

I considered 3 different locations to mount the blower - the first was right next to the white box (the engine controls systems) next to the heater box. I couldn't use that location becuse the hood stick collapses into that area. The second was between the air cleaner box and the engine. ( did'nt use that location because I would have the blower touching the ignitionwires. The third was on top of the motor.

I decided to build an aluminum heat shield and mount it on top of the motor.

I went to the OSH hardware store and bought some aluminum 3" ridged/flexible clothsdryer exhaust hose to run my tests. (If everything works I will replace the alumium hose with Stainless Steel hose that is fabricated the same way as the aluminum hose I bought.)

The air box has a self opening purge valve on the bottom of the canister to allow any water that may get sucked into the air box to drain. I hooked everything up turned on the fan without the motor running and had plenty of air blowing out the purge valve - and even backpressure coming out the intake for the blower . I started the motor and at idle I had plenty of air still blowing out the purge valve. Holding the rpms at - 2k I still had air blowing out the purge valve.

There was no real load on the motor - my truck was in "park" during the tests. Before I put the system through driving tests I am going drive my with the blower and heat shield inplace. But use my original air canister cap (with horn) for a week to see the the ABS blower casing withstands the under hood heat. If it does I will hook everything back up and do more testing.

I am hoping for some feedback from the mechanics on the board to get their feed back on "blowing air" into the airbox/air filter.

If it turns out to be a bad idea - I will just use my raised air intake without the blower when I am 4 wheeling. and then clip on the stock "horn" air cansiter cover for daily driving.

I have uploaded some pics of this project for you to see what I have done.

Thanks in advance for any comments - The good, bad or ugly!
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  #2  
Old November 4th, 2007, 08:37 PM
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Very nice. Where did you get the extra horn?
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Old November 4th, 2007, 09:20 PM
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I got the extra horn from a local rover repair shop - they had a older RR sitting in the yard that they are using for parts.

I actually made a modification to the unit. Instead of just leaving an inch of the original horn (which has a taper ) I cut it all off - except for the first 3/8". I built a 1" collar from brass and brazed it to the remaining plate. So now the 1" for the hose clamp is not tapered. I made this collar to fit the diameter of the OME Mantec Hose - which is 2 &3/4". I put a 1/8" thick layer of electricians friction tape on the collar so the 3" metal ducting hose fits sungly to the collar.
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  #4  
Old November 5th, 2007, 04:42 PM
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Thumbs up

I like the idea! Does the blower move the air at a constant rate or do you have it set up to increase flow as the engine RPM's increase. If it is blowing air at a constant rate, I think during idle, too much air would be flowing possibly damaging the MAF unit. Did you notice any increase in performance? Gas mileage? Where did you source the blower? What was the price?

Keep us updated!

Cheers...
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Old November 5th, 2007, 09:57 PM
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electric supercharger.. heh heh.. will it take the heat of being right over the intake maifold??

~Steve
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  #6  
Old November 5th, 2007, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revtor
electric supercharger.. heh heh.. will it take the heat of being right over the intake maifold??

~Steve
Yeah, I played with one of those a little years ago when I first saw this.

I think the Attwood/Detmar will take the heat and should certainly move enough air to compensate for the tube but I don't think it will offer any real performance gain, just make up for the loss of the raised intake. Remember, these are designed to be contained in engine bays including those on Wellcraft/Donzi/Fountain etc., some of which have 3 or 4 big V8 engines in them running at high rpm for hours!
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Old November 6th, 2007, 12:07 AM
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static blower test

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grover
I like the idea! Does the blower move the air at a constant rate or do you have it set up to increase flow as the engine RPM's increase. If it is blowing air at a constant rate, I think during idle, too much air would be flowing possibly damaging the MAF unit. Did you notice any increase in performance? Gas mileage? Where did you source the blower? What was the price?

Keep us updated!

Cheers...

The blower has a constant rate of 170 CFM- I have decided to install a one way purge valve at the current location of the air cleaner canister water drain spout. Any extra air will exit out the bottom of the canister. and will eliminate air pressure build up surrounding the filter. So far I have only been testing the ability of the blower to handle the heat under the hood. Today I went for a 2 hour freeway drive (65-75 mph) - then some driving around town - the heat shield was hot - but the ABS shell of the blower was warm - it did not melt or deform and it cooled off quickly. Tomorrow I am going to install a more agrresive heat shield. It is a special heat absorbing cloth commonly used to protect wood structures when sweating copper pipes together - it is used to protect the wood structure of a house when re-plumbing/ repairing copper tubing in your house. You can hit it directly with a propain torch and the wood underneath does not even scorch.

I bought the DetMar 3" marine inline blower from West Marine products. It cost $29. plus tax & shipping. it is UL / Marine grade tested.

I don't anticipate any improved engine performance - it is there to just make up for the loss of "air" from the mantec hose.

If I get the heat blanket installed tomorrow I'll take the blower system live and report some results. I am taking a drive on Thursday to Yosemite that will allow me to measure my gas mileage. The drive out will be with the blower and mantec operational. The drive back will be with the original air intake horn - no blower or raised air intake.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stmpede
Yeah, I played with one of those a little years ago when I first saw this.

I think the Attwood/Detmar will take the heat and should certainly move enough air to compensate for the tube but I don't think it will offer any real performance gain, just make up for the loss of the raised intake. Remember, these are designed to be contained in engine bays including those on Wellcraft/Donzi/Fountain etc., some of which have 3 or 4 big V8 engines in them running at high rpm for hours!
Thanks for the info on the blower - I checked out the electric supercharger - pretty cool. Are they using a standard K&N air filter? it looks like a K&N.
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Old November 6th, 2007, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenB

If I get the heat blanket installed tomorrow I'll take the blower system live and report some results. I am taking a drive on Thursday to Yosemite that will allow me to measure my gas mileage. The drive out will be with the blower and mantec operational. The drive back will be with the original air intake horn - no blower or raised air intake.

Follow-up Post:



Thanks for the info on the blower - I checked out the electric supercharger - pretty cool. Are they using a standard K&N air filter? it looks like a K&N.
You're welcome! BTW, just out of curiosity, will elevation alter your mileage readings or is the drive pretty level, or equal incline/decline each way? Just wondering.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stmpede
You're welcome! BTW, just out of curiosity, will elevation alter your mileage readings or is the drive pretty level, or equal incline/decline each way? Just wondering.
To get out of the S.F. bay area I have to climb over two small bumps in the CA costal range mountains -niether climb is much higher than 1,000 ft. the reast of the drive will be on realitively flat terrain - CA's Central valley. it is 400 miles long and does not change more than a few hundred ft in elevation from one end to the other.

When climbing over these first two bumps I'll get a good feel for any engine performance issues - I drive them frequently so I know where my transmission shifts on the enclines.

To get miliage readings I will tank up before I leave - after crossing the mountains, then when I arrive at the destination.

I installed the heat blanket on the blower- - I'll post a pic later today of the complete install.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 08:51 PM
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pic of the silver worm

I drove the truck with the heat cloth installed today. I drove about 20 miles (freeway 65-75 mph) outside air temps were around 65 degrees. I pulled into a gas station to check the temps of the blower. The heat shield was hot and the interior of the blower was cool. You'd never guess it was sitting over a running motor for a while. I did a brief gas milage check with about 40 miles on the freeway and 3 on the city streets. When I tanked up the seconfd time I used the same pump at the same staition and let the pump shut off automatically. I got 14 mpg- I usually get 14 - 15 mpg. If I get off the gas pedal and drive the speed limits (65 mph) - I usulally get 15mpg

I have not installed a purge valve in the bottom of the air canister yet - and I may not. I insterted a 3/4" diam. 3 " long tube into the factory drain cock and clamp it tight so the tube would not fall out. Now any extra air pressure the truck is not using freely escapes out the bottom of the canister.

I have attached a pic the the near final configuration for the "silver worm" When I am satified this is going to work - I will run the electrical to a switch on my dash console. Right now I am using a switch that controls one of my hellas.
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Old November 9th, 2007, 12:06 PM
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I drove the truck using the system up and running out to the sierra foothills yesterday . It got 15 mpg ( I tried to maintian 65 mph on the freeways - but I occasionally went up to 75 to pass slower moving traffic). I noticed no issues in engine response or power. It accelerated to freeway speeds and climbed as it did without the raised air intake and the blower installed. With the heat cloth installed the temps of the blower are the same as the outside air temps. The heat cloth protects the blower casing and it's motor from the underhood temps generated by the engine.

I am going to continue using the blower system daily. If any motor related problems arise I'll post the info.

If anyone chooses to do the same with their raised air intake I would recommend using a K&N air filter - rather than a stock paper filter. And I would not forget to install a short pipe out the bottom of the stock air filter canister to allow any extra air that the engine is not using to pass freely out of the canister. Although with this pipe installed wading in deep water that is deep enough to touch the bottom of the canisiter could allow water to reach the air filter - but with the high volume of air exiting the pipe, water will have a tough time getting in. This is why I was originally going to install a purge valve in the bottom of the air canister.

The heat cloth I used is sold by Bernzomatic and I bought it at HOME DEPOT!

If anyone has any questions I'll be glad to answer them.
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  #12  
Old November 9th, 2007, 01:04 PM
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Hey Len - maybe i missed something, but did you drive with the snorkel before the blower and notice a reduction in performance?

And you are relying on the "overpressure system" of the blower to keep dust etc out of the intake?
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Old November 9th, 2007, 04:12 PM
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Hi Jim,

How is life in the "Big City"? Is the weather starting to cool off in Moscow yet?

Good Point! No, I have not run the intake system without the blower running. After a conversation with the folks at ECR - where they said they have done some basic V8 testing and found decreased engine performance due to the engine having to "Suck it's air supply through a long staw" I decided to see if a simple blower would relieve the issue without running my own pre-tests. I do intend to test that tomorrow on my drive down to Los Gatos - it is a 40 mile round trip - I'll check the basic acceleration and gas consumption.

I would prefer not to have any "overpresure" at all in the system - but that would require some sophisticated sensor hardware to control how fast the motor spins the blades in the blower. The reason I have an open port in the bottom of the air filter canister is to relieve the overpresure. I know I'll still be sucking dust into the air canister via the raised air intake - but it be considerably less dust when compared to the stock horn/underhood intake.

If I find a Variable DC controller - (like the dimmer switch for lights in your house) I can fiddle with the blower output.
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Old November 9th, 2007, 04:39 PM
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Cool

FWIW, I have been running with a Mantec Raised Air intake and a K&N for a while. I never noticed any drawbacks regarding fule mileage nor performance.


Cheers...
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Old November 9th, 2007, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grover
FWIW, I have been running with a Mantec Raised Air intake and a K&N for a while. I never noticed any drawbacks regarding fule mileage nor performance.


Cheers...
Hi Mike - Thanks for the input ---- maybe I should not have been so willing to listen to others before just flat out testing it first! This weekend I'll be running the mantec (less the blower). I might have been able to use the time I spent on this project making something else!
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Old November 9th, 2007, 05:06 PM
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Len - Moscow is definitely chilly. Sometimes I think an up-armored HMMWV would be preferable to the defender.

Either way, I would be surprised if limiting factor of performance in the D90 was its ability to suck air - its not exactly in a high state of tune from the factory. It would be interesting to know for sure one way or the other, but my guess is that short of some actual testing using instruments, no one will really know for sure.
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Old November 9th, 2007, 05:28 PM
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I would imagine using a tube with a smooth bore would yield less turbulent flow than the using a flex hose...
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Old November 12th, 2007, 01:00 AM
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On Saturday I drove the truck with the air intake installed without using the blower. The good news is that I got 15 mpg (driving 65 mph) so it did not hurt my milage. I am not so sure about acceleration though. I felt like my acceleration was not as responsive as when I used the blower. (It may very well be my imagination) I have re installed the blower and will do some speed/timing tests using a stopwatch over the next week or so. I'll report back on my results for those that are interested. I don't normally drive my D90 around with a lead foot - but I'll do it for the tests.
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Old November 13th, 2007, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenB
.......I have re installed the blower and will do some speed/timing tests using a stopwatch.....
If you really felt the need to accurately document the effects of your changes, you might consider taking it to a drag strip. A controlled environment; plus time slips don't lie.

Admittedly a drive to get there from SJ, but Sacramento Raceway may still have their Wednesday night test and tune sessions going. (and it's not crowded like on a weekend when the points events are running....)

Or maybe Sonoma?
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Old November 13th, 2007, 11:03 PM
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Hi Garth,

Thanks - For grins I just might do it - it would certainly answer any questions about the blower improving acceleration! I'll check with the track in Sacramento.
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