GO-90 window felt replacement on ST door tops - Page 2 - Defender Source
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  #21  
Old March 22nd, 2012, 12:23 AM
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I finished my felt installation tonight. The rattle is completely gone and they seal beautifully. I still feel like the windows are dragging roughly along the bottom track and I'm thinking about spraying some lithium grease down there to smooth things out.

Paul's kit is really amazing and so well put together. The actual installation of the felts is super easy and only took me about 10 minutes to do one window. The hardest part of this project is disassembling the windows themselves. Here are some tricks that might be useful:

- Soak the crap out of those four screws with Liquid Wrench penetrating oil or PB Blaster. Soak them for at least several days if you can. Tap the top of them with a brass drift or something, to help the oil penetrate down into the threads. Whatever you do, you don't want to shear the head off of one of these screws. Big pain in the ass if you do.

- If you do shear the screw head off, carefully drill it out with a 1/8" bit. You might start off with a smaller bit and maybe even use a center punch to put a small pit in the top of the sheared screw. You don't want the bit to slide off the (hard) broken screw and into the much softer aluminum. If this happens, you will end up with a hole adjacent to the broken screw. Take your time.

- If you shear a screw, try your best to remove the entire remains of the broken screw from the frame. If you don't, the bottom of the screw will drag on the outer frame and you will not be able to remove the glass and inner frame from the outer frame. If your glass and inner frame feel stuck, it's probably because they're dragging on a screw.

- Don't buy the $4.95 rivet gun from Harbor Freight. It's a total piece of shit and will destroy itself trying to install the rivets that come with the Garrison kit. I went through two guns before I gave up on them. Each broke on the second rivet. Get a real rivet gun.

- A little satin black spray paint, dabbed on with a Q-tip, can be used to touch up the inevitable scratches and to paint the rivets.

- Do only one door top at a time. Start with the passenger side, because it's cheaper to replace if you destroy it. By doing one at a time, you'll have the other door to reference during reassembly.
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  #22  
Old March 22nd, 2012, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rijosho View Post
Charles you're going to laugh, but I've never been able to get the driver's side door top off.
Sadly I don't think this is that unusual, but it can be done. Since you are doing the seals I say pull the rail and glass in place so you expose the tops of the studs as well as holes that allow water to run out under the seal to the outside.

I'd start treatments of pb blaster into the tubes the studs go in. What happens is the studs start rusting and expanding and the plastic sleeve around them expands with them and this is what is holding them in - you need something to get in there and lube it up. Also try get lubricant in between the seal and the capping and work a plastic scraper in between them. If you do this along both sides progressively, at some point you should be able to then take a wedge like those door shims you can buy at home depot, and start driving those in (again with plenty of lubricant) and eventually it will start to come out. It's a fight, but it can be done without doing any harm. Also striking the top and bottom door top frames with a rubber mallet (up and down) might help work it free as well - just do it evenly on both sides so the door comes up square.

There is a fairly high chance some paint will come off the top of the capping though. But there is nothing like rolling with the door tops off!
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  #23  
Old March 23rd, 2012, 08:42 PM
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Alright. More progress - did the tape trick that Charles suggested before doing the last rivets. Broke yet another bit, but at least it was after drilling out the rivet that then STUCK to the bit and broke as I vice gripped it off. Got the 3 felt strips out. I then slid the bottom window channel out, and removed the felt.

Brought the door top to the bathroom and shook it out and then used the keyboard air spray and got all the small bits out with some forced air.

Soaking the Goo Gone overnight. I assume that means I just put it on the pad and scrub it in there a bit, repeat, then leave overnight? Glad the woman isn't home this weekend as I've taken over the bathroom.
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  #24  
Old March 23rd, 2012, 10:42 PM
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Good to hear. I just poured some in and tipped the window around to spread it.
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  #25  
Old March 24th, 2012, 09:43 PM
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Man. I didn't even use the pad or the goo gone. I had trouble wilt the gasket that holds the fixed glass in. Armor all(sucks) helped. I sprayed the gasket before I pulled the frame apart it really made reassembly of the second window a breeze. The gasket on the first window fought me tooth and nail.

You've wasted a lot of time if you don't replace the little plastic track the glass lives in.

The heads on those rivets are to big, I can see ever one under the rubber filler. I bet genuine rivets would fit, 55$ for the rubber track would be worthwhile.
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  #26  
Old March 24th, 2012, 10:33 PM
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I finished my install of the door tops window felt. I think I suck at riveting as only a few of them turned out right - the others broke off with an inch and a half left. The extrusion on the felt is really nice and there's absolutely no more rattling.

I took a few photos of the old felt compared to the new.

Here's how bad the window rattled before starting this project:



And here's how nice and quiet it is now:

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  #27  
Old March 24th, 2012, 11:01 PM
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The rivets that come with the kit suck. I had the same issue as horsey. I ended up using own rivets and it worked out much better.
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  #28  
Old March 25th, 2012, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rover4x4 View Post
The heads on those rivets are to big, I can see ever one under the rubber filler. I bet genuine rivets would fit, 55$ for the rubber track would be worthwhile.
Just to clarify, Phillip is referring to the Rear Sliding Windows.

Phillip, regarding the rivets, I posted this in another forum... they are the OEM style rivets in the kit.
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...7&postcount=30

I will look into your comments about the heads being too big.

------ Follow up post added March 25th, 2012 04:37 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjf View Post
The rivets that come with the kit suck. I had the same issue as horsey. I ended up using own rivets and it worked out much better.
I will look into why these rivets are breaking off before being tight enough. This bothers me, as these are OEM quality rivets matched exactly to ones purchased both from Rovers North and my local dealer. (See post above regarding the rivets in the rear sliding windows)
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  #29  
Old March 25th, 2012, 09:45 AM
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Rivets
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  #30  
Old March 25th, 2012, 03:54 PM
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I don't know if it was the rivets or my shitty Harbor Freight rivet tool but I had horrible luck. Before I work on the other window top, I'm going to pick up a better tool. If you guys figure out some better rivets to use, do post details.

I think that my problem of rough sliding windows is being caused by the Home Depot #6 screws that I used on the bottom track to replace the Pozidriv screws that I broke. I ordered some nice stainless pan head screws from McMaster and I'll see if those work better. If they do, hit me up with your mailing address and I'll send you some. I had to buy a big pack of them to get what I needed.
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  #31  
Old March 25th, 2012, 07:06 PM
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I am not sure with the rivets, the ones in that kit are pretty shitty, see above photo. I didnt stretch the rubber filler strip so that it was too tight. I am a tough customer and generally an asshole when it comes to my Rovers, for what this kit cost it had better have genuine parts. I was looking at those rivets today and got mad, I might just order the felt and rivets from Rovers North. I really like the material that replaces the felt but the rest is bullshit. I imagine you could buy the material from JC Whitney etc for 2$ a foot. It seemed like a really nice product that was worth the money, but it is a 6/10 at best. I hate the way my windows look now.


Dont blame the cheap rivet tool!!! Ive been using the same one for 7 years, it came from sears.
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  #32  
Old March 26th, 2012, 12:11 AM
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nicely done
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  #33  
Old March 26th, 2012, 10:46 AM
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Phillip,

I am sorry to hear about your dissatisfaction with the look of your vehicle upon completion of the install. It is my goal that every customer be a satisfied customer.

Please contact me directly at paul@garrisonoutfitters.com so that I may work to resolve this issue for you.

Best regards,
Paul
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  #34  
Old March 26th, 2012, 09:31 PM
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I think you guys just all suck at using a rivet gun

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris snell View Post
I don't know if it was the rivets or my shitty Harbor Freight rivet tool but I had horrible luck. Before I work on the other window top, I'm going to pick up a better tool. If you guys figure out some better rivets to use, do post details.

I think that my problem of rough sliding windows is being caused by the Home Depot #6 screws that I used on the bottom track to replace the Pozidriv screws that I broke. I ordered some nice stainless pan head screws from McMaster and I'll see if those work better. If they do, hit me up with your mailing address and I'll send you some. I had to buy a big pack of them to get what I needed.
I will check my other window sets (I have 4 total I can look at) but the two I have looked at recently both had phillips head screws that match the #6 screws, at least to my visual check and holding them up against each other. I'll also check and make sure the window still slides ok on the window I put them in (it's one I have not changed the felt on yet).
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  #35  
Old March 27th, 2012, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rover4x4 View Post
I am not sure with the rivets, the ones in that kit are pretty shitty, see above photo. I didnt stretch the rubber filler strip so that it was too tight. I am a tough customer and generally an asshole when it comes to my Rovers, for what this kit cost it had better have genuine parts. I was looking at those rivets today and got mad, I might just order the felt and rivets from Rovers North. I really like the material that replaces the felt but the rest is bullshit. I imagine you could buy the material from JC Whitney etc for 2$ a foot. It seemed like a really nice product that was worth the money, but it is a 6/10 at best. I hate the way my windows look now.
I have to come to Paul's defense on this. His channels are not some JC Whitney crap. Designing the right channel to make the windows slide and hold properly is a matter of tents of a millimeter. This not something that you can buy off the shelf somewhere. The GO product fits the windows perfectly and works better than Genuine. The kit is not cheap but it's a bargain for the amount of design effort behind it and the technical support that is delivered.

------ Follow up post added March 26th, 2012 10:57 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgalpin View Post
I will check my other window sets (I have 4 total I can look at) but the two I have looked at recently both had phillips head screws that match the #6 screws, at least to my visual check and holding them up against each other. I'll also check and make sure the window still slides ok on the window I put them in (it's one I have not changed the felt on yet).
On mine, those Home Depot screws stick up just enough to scrape the bottom of the sliding windows. I'm going to try the new screws tomorrow and I'll post up with my findings.
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  #36  
Old March 27th, 2012, 08:29 AM
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Yeah I think you are being way too harsh Phillip. I don't quite grock what issues you are running into with the SW windows but I am very happy with the ST stuff - channels and rivets, and everything else. IMO you want the aluminum mandrel over a steel one, even if it's at the cost of being a bit softer. But this picture you show must mean the heads are bigger or not recessed properly. Do you have a picture of it without the filler strip in place? It seems at worst you just need to get rivets with a smaller head.

Chris, the window I put the screws in slides fine, but since it hasn't had the felt replaced yet, it could just be looser. I'll probably do the channels on those over the weekend and be able to compare but I did look at the tops I have, and 3 of them are D90 ST tops and they all have phillips head screws. The 4th pair are 110 middle doors and they have flat head screws with possibly a smaller profile. None are pozidrive though.
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  #37  
Old March 27th, 2012, 08:42 AM
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I think the felt replacement is top notch, the rest of the kit is nice but I don't like how I can see every rivet.
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  #38  
Old December 22nd, 2015, 03:28 PM
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Question

What is the need to remove the door tops to install the track seals?
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  #39  
Old December 22nd, 2015, 08:03 PM
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What is the need to remove the door tops to install the track seals?
For one, its to be able to let the GooGone soak so you can easily remove all the old residue and inspect the channels. We've done a bunch off these and are constantly rotating the frames around to get a better angles to work with. You can see all that is involved in our installation videos http://www.youtube.com/garrisonoutfitters
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  #40  
Old February 24th, 2016, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by proulx70 View Post
Just to clarify, Phillip is referring to the Rear Sliding Windows.

Phillip, regarding the rivets, I posted this in another forum... they are the OEM style rivets in the kit.
where to source side window felt - Page 2 - Defender Source

I will look into your comments about the heads being too big.

------ Follow up post added March 25th, 2012 04:37 AM ------



I will look into why these rivets are breaking off before being tight enough. This bothers me, as these are OEM quality rivets matched exactly to ones purchased both from Rovers North and my local dealer. (See post above regarding the rivets in the rear sliding windows)


I had the same issues. The rivets broke before tightening up. I spent more time removing the busted rivets than the felt install. I gave up on the rivets and used SS machine screws. This way, I can easily disassemble if needed.
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