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  #21  
Old April 13th, 2009, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeep Rescue
And who gives a #$%@ if mine is an ECR ripoff?
I do, only because you said it was your own design. Pictures of the 2 side by side. At least give us credit for "your" design, or at least give it a flavor of your own.
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  #22  
Old April 13th, 2009, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECR
I do, only because you said it was your own design. Pictures of the 2 side by side. At least give us credit for "your" design, or at least give it a flavor of your own.
Okay, now we are mincing words. I never saw that pic of yours! But, you are absolutely correct now that I see your floor support design. I have no problem recinding my previous design remarks. I'll change my write-up to reflect I completely ripped off your design. When I start manufacturing them I'll add some "pieces of flair" to reflect my individuality. Here's the requisite smiley to show I am not mad and don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

What I meant was that I made mine to fit a 1.2m tent, made a hi-lift mount in the back, and have a shovel/axe mount, I should have been clearer on that.
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  #23  
Old April 13th, 2009, 09:47 AM
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Safety Devices will be manufacturing our racks from now on anyway as we have given the design to them. Patricia Fall from SD (the owner) was here at the shop last week to take pictures and such. So you may have to answer to her if you start manufacturing that rack. They are getting Safety Devices North America up and running in all respects (one of the reasons for her visit) and this will include them being more active in the US market and keep things that are "theirs"... "theirs".
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  #24  
Old April 13th, 2009, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECR
Safety Devices will be manufacturing our racks from now on anyway as we have given the design to them. Patricia Fall from SD (the owner) was here at the shop last week to take pictures and such. So you may have to answer to her if you start manufacturing that rack. They are getting Safety Devices North America up and running in all respects (one of the reasons for her visit) and this will include them being more active in the US market and keep things that are "theirs"... "theirs".
Thanks for the heads up, but I am not worried about competing with SD as my customers are primarily the Jeep and Land Cruiser crowd. SD didn't seem too worried with Urban Offroad ripping off their design. Mine is/will be different enough to avoid any issues. I've dealt with this many times before on other metal fabricated products. I've found many shops don't go through the effort of patenting their stuff anyway. I don't recall a patent for the SD racks on file, but I'll check with a buddy at the patent office just to cover my ass. Thanks again....
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  #25  
Old April 13th, 2009, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeep Rescue
Thanks for the heads up, but I am not worried about competing with SD as my customers are primarily the Jeep and Land Cruiser crowd. SD didn't seem too worried with Urban Offroad ripping off their design. Mine is/will be different enough to avoid any issues. I've dealt with this many times before on other metal fabricated products. I've found many shops don't go through the effort of patenting their stuff anyway. I don't recall a patent for the SD racks on file, but I'll check with a buddy at the patent office just to cover my ass. Thanks again....
Once SDNA is fully operational a lot of things will change in regards to how they handle the US market and who gets away with what. They went through a rough patch and a lot of companies ripped off their stuff, but the end of that is near.

Also, SD is expanding into Jeep and Yota. Stay tuned for SEMA announcments!

Also, if anyone wants just a SD rear ladder for their own rack design, we now sell SD rear ladders, as well as all other SD Land Rover products.
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  #26  
Old April 13th, 2009, 10:15 AM
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So glad SD is going to make the ECR rack
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  #27  
Old April 13th, 2009, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWR
Wow, I've seen that rack design before, let me think......it'll come to me......oh yeah..ECR


love the originality.
What an ass.

Thanks for incorrectly chiming in though.


I like the basket design and it is a good call on using square stock on the bottom/floor if that is what I see. Makes it easier to mount a flooring solution if you ever choose to. I used 5-bar on the back portion as a midnight "pee" platform which is countersunk attached. Not sure if you ever plan to use an awning but you might want to add provisions for it. One last thought. Depending on the type of tent you use, the hannibals I know from experience are impossible to get the covers tight enough for highway driving. And you won't know it is flapping like a big sail until you are in a convoy of friends and someone tells you on the radio. Might be a good idea to add a tie down hidden in the front or just continue to use rachet straps if the design is already baked.




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sail
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  #28  
Old April 13th, 2009, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarchand
What an ass.

Thanks for incorrectly chiming in though.
Considering that Carey was part of the team that hashed out the final set up of the ECR rack I don't see how he is incorrectly chiming in, or an ass. If you look at the 2 photos I posted above and take into context the fact that the original poster basically said, "Check out the rack of my own design." you will see Carey's point that he has for sure seen that basket before, in fact he has installed quite a number of them before.
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  #29  
Old April 13th, 2009, 12:01 PM
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Can we discuss the ladder mounting point. Kind of nice not to have to drill through the body
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  #30  
Old April 13th, 2009, 12:45 PM
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Okay, now everyone is being a bunch of idiots. I said "So I came up with my own design - open in the front so I could fit a 1.2m tent - and much more stout in terms of welds and mounting." Get over it and let's talk Rovers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bjf
Can we discuss the ladder mounting point. Kind of nice not to have to drill through the body
Yeah, I wanted something that wouldn't leave a mark on the body. I think the SD and ECRs racks mount in the only real logical place other than the rear crossmember, but the body, especially aluminum is such a weak place to mount it. I am only assuming here - but I think the ECR and SD racks just have plates behind the body for support. Now if those plates tied to the crossmember and the roll cage that might be an option.
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  #31  
Old April 13th, 2009, 01:04 PM
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The SD rack spreads the load pretty well over the tub. Plus it uses some of the capping as well. I don't think that has ever been considered a "weak point" in the design. Maybe it's just me.

Has anyone had that point fail on their racks?
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  #32  
Old April 13th, 2009, 01:09 PM
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I've only seen one in Moab where the left side had split and torn the body. But that guy had a lot of weight on his and was doing some pretty hard wheeling.
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  #33  
Old April 13th, 2009, 01:22 PM
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The SD unit mount on the RH side is rock solid, through the capping and a large backing plate.
The LH side uses 2 backing plates that span the width of the rear panel-side area. It has a little tiny bit of flex to it, but nothing bad. Once bolted in it would have virtually the same flex that this design does ont eh LH side, and a little less flex on the RH side. Both will work just fine, but with the SD you do have to drill holes.
One benefit of the "extra holes" on the RH side is that with the SD style you would not have to remove the rack in order to service the upper RH tire carrier pivot bolt that is blocked in on this design.
There would be no way for that LH rear area to "fail", unless you back into a tree or something, and then it wouldn't matter what you have.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeep Rescue
I've only seen one in Moab where the left side had split and torn the body. But that guy had a lot of weight on his and was doing some pretty hard wheeling.
For some reason a lot of dealer installed SD racks we see do not have the lower full width backing plate installed. I think some dealer installers cut some corners and just put bolts in instead, and that can cause failure. (The dealers didn't usually install the 2 bolts with the blue arrows)

Here are images of what it is behind the mounts on the SD:
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  #34  
Old April 13th, 2009, 01:32 PM
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Why not just weld a piece of angle to the rollcage support on the driver side, and then bolt the backing plate to it.

I added one of those antennae/worklight mounts to my truck and initially thought the backing plate provided was overkill. It's quite large. Turns out it almost isn't enough! That area flexes very easily.

I have no idea if this is even a concern with the racks, but since it would be so easy to tie it to the cage, I wonder why you guys don't?
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  #35  
Old April 13th, 2009, 01:56 PM
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Those are great pics Mike and help explain the mounting points better.

Charles, I considered doing just what you mentioned- welding some sort of tab to the cage support as both sides run so close to the mounts. I still plan on doing that on the passenger side though.
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  #36  
Old April 13th, 2009, 04:42 PM
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how much

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECR
Once SDNA is fully operational a lot of things will change in regards to how they handle the US market and who gets away with what. They went through a rough patch and a lot of companies ripped off their stuff, but the end of that is near.

Also, SD is expanding into Jeep and Yota. Stay tuned for SEMA announcments!

Also, if anyone wants just a SD rear ladder for their own rack design, we now sell SD rear ladders, as well as all other SD Land Rover products.
What do the ladders run and do they come with all the brackets?
Thanks Michael
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  #37  
Old April 14th, 2009, 10:53 AM
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So it being open in the front is so.... .. long things can stick out? Or for your roof top tent to fold out? I picture hard braking and things flying. Looks stout as hell, whats it weigh?

The only thing about the ladder that bugs me is that it really blocks the license plate and I would not want to get pulled over and told that I need to move the plate.. or ladder..

nice work!
~Steve
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  #38  
Old April 14th, 2009, 11:01 AM
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Yeah, it's open in front for the tent to flip open. It is pretty heavy, I bet double the weight of a SD basket.

I am working on a solution for the license plate blockage. It's not too bad, but worst case is that I move the plate - which kinda defeats the purpose. The issue is that I need a tighter radius die for my bender. Even the SD ladders partially block the plate unless you are looking it straight on.
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  #39  
Old April 14th, 2009, 05:09 PM
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As far as the weight, I'd research various materials and wall thickness. Did you use D.O.M. or electroweld?

No, I'm not trying to start anything, just curious. I wouldn't want Davids panties to get twisted....

Have you weighed the rack yet? I'm sure it's quite a bit heavier than a SD's rack, but 10x times stronger I'm sure.
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  #40  
Old April 14th, 2009, 05:56 PM
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No need to research wall thickness, it's all pretty standard stuff. For 1.5" welded seam tube there are generally 3 thicknesses available, and .0165" thick is the most common - that's in between what's considered thick and thin wall. Before I built it I figured about 1lb per foot of steel. If I had to guess, I'd say the basket weighs about 80lbs. I bet ECR has a better figure on the weight.
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