Brake upgrade on my DI - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old November 12th, 2015, 07:54 AM
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Mark Garrenton
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Brake upgrade on my DI

Okay, it's not a Defender but... I replaced all four calipers on my disco I along with rotors. Up front I used the bigger 110 calipers and vented rotors. I also used s/s flex lines, Ferodo pads and new hardware too. The front calipers did require fabricating new hard lines at the swivel balls. A quart of new brake fluid was used through the bleed portion. I can report that this truck actually stops now. Really stops! I can lock up the tires on dry pavement if I want to. It has never remotely performed like this before. The confidence of having functioning brakes cannot be overstated.
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  #2  
Old November 12th, 2015, 08:54 AM
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Brian Jones
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Its an excellent upgrade. I did the same within a month or two of getting my D1. I used D90 Calipers vs the 110. I've locked up the brakes once on my commute home at 70 mph.

I would now like to remove the ABS completely. It kicks on from time to time when I really dont need it.
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  #3  
Old November 12th, 2015, 09:11 AM
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Ray Gerber
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I pulled the ABS fuse(s) long ago as it started to act up, as well as doing the 90 front caliper swap.
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  #4  
Old November 12th, 2015, 09:34 AM
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FYI there is a rear caliper conversion kit, where you install front caliper 4 piston set up at the rear..
if Im not mistaken, it is all over pirate forum and disco web.
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  #5  
Old November 12th, 2015, 11:00 AM
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Just a note.... The only thing that made a noticeable difference in your stopping is the pad change. (Maybe the fluid change as well if it had moisture in it). Bigger calipers and vented rotors aren't going to make a difference on a Vehicle like this. Maybe long downhills or if you tow, but the added mass simply helps dissipate heat over a longer period time, not regular driving

While those changes aren't a bad thing, if anyone is looking to improve the brakes on their vehicle first step is to start with a more aggressive pad compound. Will also be the cheapest. And for the love of god stay away from ceramics. They are like stopping with ice cubes
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  #6  
Old November 12th, 2015, 11:02 AM
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The front calipers have pistons that are 25% larger in area. This is what gives the better stopping power. The calipers and pads are the the same physical size, just bigger pistons.
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  #7  
Old November 12th, 2015, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
The front calipers have pistons that are 25% larger in area. This is what gives the better stopping power.
Absolutely not. Large Pistons just give a more even wear on the brake pad and help dissipate heat better ( in an application like this). The increased surface area will Not Make a difference

Pads make all the difference. You could put a 6 piston caliper and 15" rotors on the front with say a stock pad compound vs a stock caliper with a slightly more aggressive pad compound and the latter would stop 10x better
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  #8  
Old November 12th, 2015, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
The calipers and pads are the the same physical size, just bigger pistons.
Are Defender pads not also bigger? I thought they had a larger surface area.

------ Follow up post added November 12th, 2015 11:13 AM ------

Also, what kind of brake fluid are you using? Land Rovers are supposed to take a low viscosity brake fluid.
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  #9  
Old November 12th, 2015, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossman429 View Post
Absolutely not. Large Pistons just give a more even wear on the brake pad and help dissipate heat better ( in an application like this). The increased surface area will Not Make a difference

Pads make all the difference. You could put a 6 piston caliper and 15" rotors on the front with say a stock pad compound vs a stock caliper with a slightly more aggressive pad compound and the latter would stop 10x better
With a 25% larger piston area, the clamping force is 25% higher for the same pedal pressure. More clamping pressure, more stopping force.
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  #10  
Old November 12th, 2015, 11:16 AM
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I would be willing to bet the larger calipers w/ larger pads in conjunction with the vented rotors would stop better than the stock D1 brakes and solid rotors.

D1 caliper/pad < D90 Caliper stock pad. I've run both with stock pads and aggresive pads. The D90 calipers with the EBC pads can really improve your stopping distance.
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  #11  
Old November 12th, 2015, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waveridin1959 View Post
I would be willing to bet the larger calipers w/ larger pads in conjunction with the vented rotors would stop better than the stock D1 brakes and solid rotors. D1 caliper/pad < D90 Caliper stock pad. I've run both with stock pads and aggresive pads. The D90 calipers with the EBC pads can really improve your stopping distance.
Not if the stock d1 setup had a more aggressive pad compound than the other setup


My point is the pad compound is more important than any other variable. By large. Also if the old pads were glazed and deteriorated that would show a huge difference by just replacing them, even for a like kind.
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  #12  
Old November 12th, 2015, 11:30 AM
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If you compare Stock Pads with both setups, the larger caliper/pad wins out. Its just science.

I upgraded both. And I can stock fairly quickly. I commute 60 miles a day in the disco. Ive tested them on more than one occasion.
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  #13  
Old November 12th, 2015, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waveridin1959 View Post
If you compare Stock Pads with both setups, the larger caliper/pad wins out. Its just science.

I upgraded both. And I can stock fairly quickly. I commute 60 miles a day in the disco. Ive tested them on more than one occasion.
Yes - I agree... but marginally.

I'm Just saying if someone is looking to improving stopping distances, your best bet is to spend $100-$125 on a pair of pads, Something like a Hawk HPS or HP+, and it will yeild you 10X the results at 1/10th the price of swapping calipers and rotors and sticking with the same stock pad compound
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  #14  
Old November 12th, 2015, 12:00 PM
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25% is not a marginal change. I agree it would be silly to swap calipers just for this, but if you are replacing cailpers anyway, they are the same price, so might as well get the better clamping.
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  #15  
Old November 12th, 2015, 12:02 PM
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Does this sound crazy? I have my old D1 axles on my 90. I swear the braking is poorer in the 90 v D1. Can't figure out why. Its lighter after all.
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  #16  
Old November 12th, 2015, 12:05 PM
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What age 90? Earlier ones have smaller boosters.
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  #17  
Old November 12th, 2015, 12:13 PM
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Also old calipers tend to get seized up and don't function as well. The cause is corrosion due to water in the brake fluid which is why frequent fluid changes are important.
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  #18  
Old November 12th, 2015, 10:22 PM
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Slowing down to a stop vrs trying to stop on a dime keeps your pads from overheating thus reducing braking efficiency over time.
A stock defender has wonderful stoping power at a factory empty weight of 4,000 lbs.
When you add bigger tires you obtain higher rolling resistance thus the optimal braking becomes marginal at best...combine added weight of winch, bumper and every other creature comfort you could put in to it plus driving habits... And there is your poor braking...
It's a truck not a sports car... I drove semi trucks for a long time, those suckers teach you to slow down to a stop.
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