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200tdi with 300tdi exhaust/turbo

8K views 50 replies 16 participants last post by  Ohlins 
#1 ·
I am almost finished with my 200tdi rebuild with a 300tdi exhaust/turbo and just noticed that the 300 exhaust downpipe hits the 200tdi's motor mount nearest the alternator. Has anyone run this set up before and if so what seems to be the easiest solution? Should I just take a hammer to the downpipe or try to cut away at the motor mount? Thanks.
 
#2 ·
You will need to modify the down pipe to slope back sharper to get it away from the mount.

I have a set of custom motor mounts on the drawing board that will use the big Mercedes hydraulic filled mounts that absorb vibrations that I hope to get to this fall that will bolt into this application and allow you to use the stock down pipe.
Those stock series style hard rubber mounts transfer enough vibrations to shake your fillings out!
 
#10 · (Edited)
Anon:
I have some exhaust union flanges that are made to join 2" or 2.25" exhaust pipe.
Generally what I do with the 200TDI is leave a short part of the down pipe in place, then lop it off and put a union made up of 2 flanges that bolt together.
Obviously the top side has the short down pipe, but the bottom side has an angled pipe that skirts by the motor mount.
The other end connects to the rest of the exhaust.

These flanges have their advantages.
They allow you to bolt a short down pipe to the exhaust manifold and leave it.
With a short flange below, there is no need to fight the manifold studs, break them off, and so on.
I also install a vibration union that drastically cuts down on the dreaded 200TDI exhaust vibration that helps shake those loose fillings out.

You just unbolt the flange.
The other advantage is these flanges allow you to section your exhaust that is pieced together where you want it, so sections are easily removed for maintenance, like installing a new clutch, transmission, and so on.

Hope this helps.
 
#11 ·
Robert are you not concerned with the difference in torsional resistance between the "softer" engine mounts and "firmer" transmission mounts? If the difference is great enough, this could lead to an excessive torsional stress being placed on the drivetrain and could result in something like the bellhousing breaking. This is why most vehicles use a 3-point drivetrain mounting system - because there is no torsional stress buildup between the engine and transfer case.
 
#12 · (Edited)
No I am not at all for this application.
The Mercedes mounts are not soft as you suggest in quotes, they are much stronger than the Rover "sandwich" mounts designed to absorb vibration.

I've used them for 9 years without any failures anywhere: drive train, bellhousings, transmission mounts, and so on.
The Mercedes mounts are a quality upgrade.

Even if the transmission mounts failed after say 8 years, we both know replacing them is trivial and they are very inexpensive.

I have no idea why you would type such a silly post.
The "excessive torsional stress" just doesn't apply to this situation.
 
#13 ·
Thank you for your arrogance as usual Robert. My post has significant merit whether or not you choose to believe so.

The consequences of running big soft engine mounts with small firm transmission mounts are real and should be apparent to a verifiable mechanical genius such as yourself.

If you have in fact run these parts for 9 years and you can verify that the mercedes mounts do have a similar amount of deflection to the rover ones, well then that is information that you did not supply in your first post and it is valuable to have.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Thank you for your arrogance as usual Robert...
You have a historical trail of posting negative comments and being sarcastic and overly passive aggressive to others on various forums including this one.

You act very much like someone causing drama and then playing the victim when you are called out on your silly postings.

Why within a weeks time you posted a message on Andrew's BMW conversion thread about taking bets that he would not be successful with his conversion.
What kind of knucklehead behavior is that????
Then later apologizing because you somehow wanted to retract your post saying you were having a bad day.

Might I be so arrogant to suggest that when you are having bad days like today, that you refrain from sarcastic, negative comments and type only positive posts that can generally help people.

Your negative replies to my posts and subsequent drama are unwelcome not only by me, but by others too.

The last time you challenged me over the OM617 verses 200TDI on a different board, I got lots of emails saying you were a young passionate generally nice guy who was sometimes moody and immature.

Adam, I am requesting you to seriously stop embarrassing yourself and act more like the gentleman we all know you can be...
 
#15 ·
Robert, I was hardly being passive aggressive or dramatic when I asked you a few valid and short questions about your engine mount conversion.

You answered them adequately but then dragged this down into the mud by needlessly writing "I have no idea why you would make such a silly post". How gentlemanly of you.

You and I clearly have some philosophical differences and that is okay. For example, I still don't understand the logic behind spending $5000 on a kit to install a $500 engine with 300,000 miles on it. But you know what they say about opinions.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Adam:
You are very passive aggressive and the above post (one up before that auzzie jumped in with commentary) is a perfect example.
You keep getting those digs in and keep having to explain yourself while doing it.

Healthy differences of opinion are not to be taken personal.
You take it all too personal and personalize it for others and that is something that fosters drama and draws so much negative attention to yourself.

It also causes moderators to end the threads you keep typing your rhetoric into like the OM617, 200TDI thread.

Right now, Adam you are welcome in my camp for a beer and a good meal, but "please don't keep pushing it".

------ Follow up post added August 14th, 2014 12:04 PM ------

Saucer of milk.. Table two.. This cat fight is getting good...:popcorn:

------ Follow up post added August 14th, 2014 11:57 AM ------

Now you two kiddies go to separate time out corners and behave...:rolleyes
Careful or I'll sick my mate Jonsey on you after he gets pumped up on vegemite.

If you haven't left the country (ah I mean fled with a pile of cash from selling a house and shop) you better make Overland East, so I can put a few good rugby tackles or AR stomp downs on both you and Jonsey!
Seriously try and make it, it will be a good time.
 
#18 · (Edited)
From someone with no dog in this fight. The merc mounts are not big and soft. On the contrary,they are designed for a heavier more powerful engine. Their value is that they utilize hydraulic dampening and some actual thought was given to their design as opposed to Rovers mounts. As someone who regularly works on tdi trucks, pretty much anything is better than rovers factory mounts.
They are of the lowest quality and simplest design and are little more than one size fits all rubber shims.
 
#20 ·
Shayne - Come up to VA for the Conclave event - good times there - you may be able to coordinate with Raub....just do Expo East with all of us... couple of Scot wankers (Robert & Doug) and you and me should be able to get up to some mischief...
 
#21 ·
With how Rover does some things (good and bad) they probably had those motor mounts designed for the Series petrol motors but kept them in circulation for ease of grabbing off the shelf and not having to redesign frame mounts.

Merc on the other hand probably had a team to figure out how to keep their diesels as quiet and comfortable as their gas versions sedans.

Transient - have you held one of those Merc mounts? They are huge (probably 4x bigger than a Rover) and have to be installed a certain way for engine forces/vibrations. Not sure if you know but the Merc mounts that Robert uses aren't for the OM617 they are from the OM606 (or maybe the OM603) which like Uncle Doug said is bigger/more powerful motor.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Same mount used on military tracked vehicles, see at the very bottom of this post.

Cabell, Robert, Trey, and I make 4 Scot wankers.
Being Scottish and wankers... we keep trying to climb out and get ahead, but our drunkenness and cheapness pulls us back down.
We need Shayne to help us up or at least pop open a "real" Fosters!
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#36 · (Edited)
FWIW since this thread is supposed to be about 200's. I had a client 110 come in with a broken timing belt.
As we all know these are interference engines . I told the guy we could try putting new push rods in, (they were bent up like a bundle of snakes- had to use a claw hammer and a block of wood to pull them out) install a new belt kit and see what happened. Since removing the head has nothing to do with the front cover or timing belt this seemed like the most financially expedient route. Truck seems to run fine. The fact that the valves are perpendicular in the head and meet the piston top squarely apparently makes it so they aren't likely to bend. I spent some time reading up on this on other forums and some guys in the UK were saying they have broken 3 belts and never had to pull the cyl head. I found myself in awe that anyone could be so unintelligent as to have broken three belts but that's another matter.
 
#39 ·
I found myself in awe that anyone could be so unintelligent as to have broken three belts but that's another matter.
Sometimes the stupid things just go. Mine went last year at 40000 km. No real reason, all OEM parts.

I now carry a set of push rods and a timing belt in my off road kit...

The 300TDIs seem to break rockers as well, but the 200s only bend the push rods.
 
#42 ·
Actually that picture was a setup, just messing with you guys. The little bloke is a good mate of Doug's in fact he was at Conclave last year.
 

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#44 ·
OK - So….how often do you replace timing belts? 60K?

What if anything other than replace, can you do to ensure it doesn't break? (apart from not driving it :) )
 
#47 · (Edited)
5yrs or 50k miles-whichever comes first. The truck I just fixed had less than 25k on the belt but it was @ least 6yrs old.

------ Follow up post added August 15th, 2014 06:49 PM ------

I do 50K miles.
On the 200TDI, it is a big job.
You have to tear the front off the engine making it a whole weekend chore.
And the disco version is more of a pita than the defender one. Of course this was a disco engine.

The disco version the ps pump bracket bolts into the cover that must be removed so you have to remove the alternator and ps pump as well.
 
#45 ·
I do 50K miles.
On the 200TDI, it is a big job.
You have to tear the front off the engine making it a whole weekend chore.
 
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