200tdi with 300tdi exhaust/turbo - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old August 13th, 2014, 10:40 PM
CircuitTested
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200tdi with 300tdi exhaust/turbo

I am almost finished with my 200tdi rebuild with a 300tdi exhaust/turbo and just noticed that the 300 exhaust downpipe hits the 200tdi's motor mount nearest the alternator. Has anyone run this set up before and if so what seems to be the easiest solution? Should I just take a hammer to the downpipe or try to cut away at the motor mount? Thanks.
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  #2  
Old August 13th, 2014, 11:08 PM
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Robert Davis
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You will need to modify the down pipe to slope back sharper to get it away from the mount.

I have a set of custom motor mounts on the drawing board that will use the big Mercedes hydraulic filled mounts that absorb vibrations that I hope to get to this fall that will bolt into this application and allow you to use the stock down pipe.
Those stock series style hard rubber mounts transfer enough vibrations to shake your fillings out!
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

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  #3  
Old August 13th, 2014, 11:26 PM
CircuitTested
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Worth taking to an exhaust shop to bend properly or is this a home garage type fix? Keep me posted on those mounts, I'm in for a set.
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  #4  
Old August 14th, 2014, 06:00 AM
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Exhaust shop unless you have a tube bender in your arsenal.
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Old August 14th, 2014, 07:50 AM
LR Max
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
You will need to modify the down pipe to slope back sharper to get it away from the mount.

I have a set of custom motor mounts on the drawing board that will use the big Mercedes hydraulic filled mounts that absorb vibrations that I hope to get to this fall that will bolt into this application and allow you to use the stock down pipe.
Those stock series style hard rubber mounts transfer enough vibrations to shake your fillings out!
That might be a good upgrade for my 109. Any bit to help with comfort.
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  #6  
Old August 14th, 2014, 08:35 AM
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doing one of these conversions today after I complete the broken belt repairs
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  #7  
Old August 14th, 2014, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
I have a set of custom motor mounts on the drawing board that will use the big Mercedes hydraulic filled mounts that absorb vibrations that I hope to get to this fall that will bolt into this application and allow you to use the stock down pipe.
Those stock series style hard rubber mounts transfer enough vibrations to shake your fillings out!
Robert is this going to convert the transfer case/gearbox mounts to match or just the engine mounts?
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  #8  
Old August 14th, 2014, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
Robert is this going to convert the transfer case/gearbox mounts to match or just the engine mounts?
So far it has not been necessary to build custom transmission mounts for the rear.
The front mounts work fine for the Mercedes OM617, the Iveco 2.8, and the Isuzu 4JB1-T.

Granted the Rover TDI engines vibrate more than these 3, so time will tell.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #9  
Old August 14th, 2014, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LR Max View Post
That might be a good upgrade for my 109. Any bit to help with comfort.
The mounts I have designed, but have not had time to build yet, DO NOT fit the 109.
They will bolt to a 90 or 110 frame that originally had a 2.5 or 2.22 diesel or petrol and then go over to the 200 TDI.
In the winter, I hope to do the same for the 300TDI.
In both cases it will allow you to just bolt in a TDI up front and drill the holes if needed for the stock gearbox mounts.

In the 300TDI case it will assume you are using the long R380.
The trick will be getting the engine to sit in the factory location so the fan ends up directly in the center of the shroud.
This will take some figuring.
I built a cross bar supported by a left and right A-frame that lets you drive a vehicle up on the ramp style lift and then hoist the engine up by the bar.
Then you can raise and lower the whole thing while you fabricate all the necessary parts.
It is also worth noting that the frames are often different enough that it sometimes requires shims between the metal and rubber mounts to achieve perfection.
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #10  
Old August 14th, 2014, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CircuitTested View Post
I am almost finished with my 200tdi rebuild with a 300tdi exhaust/turbo and just noticed that the 300 exhaust downpipe hits the 200tdi's motor mount nearest the alternator. Has anyone run this set up before and if so what seems to be the easiest solution? Should I just take a hammer to the downpipe or try to cut away at the motor mount? Thanks.
Anon:
I have some exhaust union flanges that are made to join 2" or 2.25" exhaust pipe.
Generally what I do with the 200TDI is leave a short part of the down pipe in place, then lop it off and put a union made up of 2 flanges that bolt together.
Obviously the top side has the short down pipe, but the bottom side has an angled pipe that skirts by the motor mount.
The other end connects to the rest of the exhaust.

These flanges have their advantages.
They allow you to bolt a short down pipe to the exhaust manifold and leave it.
With a short flange below, there is no need to fight the manifold studs, break them off, and so on.
I also install a vibration union that drastically cuts down on the dreaded 200TDI exhaust vibration that helps shake those loose fillings out.

You just unbolt the flange.
The other advantage is these flanges allow you to section your exhaust that is pieced together where you want it, so sections are easily removed for maintenance, like installing a new clutch, transmission, and so on.

Hope this helps.
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #11  
Old August 14th, 2014, 10:41 AM
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Robert are you not concerned with the difference in torsional resistance between the "softer" engine mounts and "firmer" transmission mounts? If the difference is great enough, this could lead to an excessive torsional stress being placed on the drivetrain and could result in something like the bellhousing breaking. This is why most vehicles use a 3-point drivetrain mounting system - because there is no torsional stress buildup between the engine and transfer case.
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  #12  
Old August 14th, 2014, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
Robert are you not concerned with the difference in torsional resistance between the "softer" engine mounts and "firmer" transmission mounts? If the difference is great enough, this could lead to an excessive torsional stress being placed on the drivetrain and could result in something like the bellhousing breaking. This is why most vehicles use a 3-point drivetrain mounting system - because there is no torsional stress buildup between the engine and transfer case.
No I am not at all for this application.
The Mercedes mounts are not soft as you suggest in quotes, they are much stronger than the Rover "sandwich" mounts designed to absorb vibration.

I've used them for 9 years without any failures anywhere: drive train, bellhousings, transmission mounts, and so on.
The Mercedes mounts are a quality upgrade.

Even if the transmission mounts failed after say 8 years, we both know replacing them is trivial and they are very inexpensive.

I have no idea why you would type such a silly post.
The "excessive torsional stress" just doesn't apply to this situation.
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #13  
Old August 14th, 2014, 11:21 AM
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Thank you for your arrogance as usual Robert. My post has significant merit whether or not you choose to believe so.

The consequences of running big soft engine mounts with small firm transmission mounts are real and should be apparent to a verifiable mechanical genius such as yourself.

If you have in fact run these parts for 9 years and you can verify that the mercedes mounts do have a similar amount of deflection to the rover ones, well then that is information that you did not supply in your first post and it is valuable to have.
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  #14  
Old August 14th, 2014, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
Thank you for your arrogance as usual Robert...
You have a historical trail of posting negative comments and being sarcastic and overly passive aggressive to others on various forums including this one.

You act very much like someone causing drama and then playing the victim when you are called out on your silly postings.

Why within a weeks time you posted a message on Andrew's BMW conversion thread about taking bets that he would not be successful with his conversion.
What kind of knucklehead behavior is that????
Then later apologizing because you somehow wanted to retract your post saying you were having a bad day.

Might I be so arrogant to suggest that when you are having bad days like today, that you refrain from sarcastic, negative comments and type only positive posts that can generally help people.

Your negative replies to my posts and subsequent drama are unwelcome not only by me, but by others too.

The last time you challenged me over the OM617 verses 200TDI on a different board, I got lots of emails saying you were a young passionate generally nice guy who was sometimes moody and immature.

Adam, I am requesting you to seriously stop embarrassing yourself and act more like the gentleman we all know you can be...
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #15  
Old August 14th, 2014, 11:53 AM
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Adam
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Robert, I was hardly being passive aggressive or dramatic when I asked you a few valid and short questions about your engine mount conversion.

You answered them adequately but then dragged this down into the mud by needlessly writing "I have no idea why you would make such a silly post". How gentlemanly of you.

You and I clearly have some philosophical differences and that is okay. For example, I still don't understand the logic behind spending $5000 on a kit to install a $500 engine with 300,000 miles on it. But you know what they say about opinions.
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  #16  
Old August 14th, 2014, 11:56 AM
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Saucer of milk.. Table two.. This cat fight is getting good...

------ Follow up post added August 14th, 2014 11:57 AM ------

Now you two kiddies go to separate time out corners and behave...
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  #17  
Old August 14th, 2014, 12:02 PM
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Adam:
You are very passive aggressive and the above post (one up before that auzzie jumped in with commentary) is a perfect example.
You keep getting those digs in and keep having to explain yourself while doing it.

Healthy differences of opinion are not to be taken personal.
You take it all too personal and personalize it for others and that is something that fosters drama and draws so much negative attention to yourself.

It also causes moderators to end the threads you keep typing your rhetoric into like the OM617, 200TDI thread.

Right now, Adam you are welcome in my camp for a beer and a good meal, but "please don't keep pushing it".

------ Follow up post added August 14th, 2014 12:04 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
Saucer of milk.. Table two.. This cat fight is getting good...

------ Follow up post added August 14th, 2014 11:57 AM ------

Now you two kiddies go to separate time out corners and behave...
Careful or I'll sick my mate Jonsey on you after he gets pumped up on vegemite.

If you haven't left the country (ah I mean fled with a pile of cash from selling a house and shop) you better make Overland East, so I can put a few good rugby tackles or AR stomp downs on both you and Jonsey!
Seriously try and make it, it will be a good time.
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RDavisinVA

Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #18  
Old August 14th, 2014, 12:11 PM
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From someone with no dog in this fight. The merc mounts are not big and soft. On the contrary,they are designed for a heavier more powerful engine. Their value is that they utilize hydraulic dampening and some actual thought was given to their design as opposed to Rovers mounts. As someone who regularly works on tdi trucks, pretty much anything is better than rovers factory mounts.
They are of the lowest quality and simplest design and are little more than one size fits all rubber shims.
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  #19  
Old August 14th, 2014, 12:37 PM
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shayne young
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Adam:
You are very passive aggressive and the above post (one up before that auzzie jumped in with commentary) is a perfect example.
You keep getting those digs in and keep having to explain yourself while doing it.

Healthy differences of opinion are not to be taken personal.
You take it all too personal and personalize it for others and that is something that fosters drama and draws so much negative attention to you.

It also causes moderators to end the threads you keep typing your rhetoric into like the OM617, 200TDI thread.

Grow up before a lot of people start disliking you.

------ Follow up post added August 14th, 2014 12:04 PM ------



Careful or I'll sick my mate Jonsey on you after he gets pumped up on vegemite.

If you haven't left the country (ah I mean fled with a pile of cash from selling a house and shop) you better make Overland East, so I can put a few good rugby tackles or AR stomp downs on both you and Jonsey!
Seriously try and make it, it will be a good time.
Did someone Say fosters..??? And no.. Not the cats piss over here that bears no resemblance to real fosters...
And Robert... You me and Jonesy can scrum it down and see who comes out with the tight end...lol.. Ewwwww...
Been thinking about overland east and am thinking I will go.. I believe there is a rally in Virginia about the same time..?? As well.. As some other stuff in that area... To coin a zack whine... That's a lot of driving..not sure I can swing it....wah wah wahhhhhhhh....
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  #20  
Old August 14th, 2014, 12:44 PM
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Shayne - Come up to VA for the Conclave event - good times there - you may be able to coordinate with Raub....just do Expo East with all of us... couple of Scot wankers (Robert & Doug) and you and me should be able to get up to some mischief...
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