110 internal roll cage - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old May 22nd, 2012, 12:02 PM
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110 internal roll cage

Had Challenger 4x4 near Aldershot make this for me. I saw one them made for a customer for a 90 that was similar and of a really good quality. I leave fabrication to professionals. This cage is completely bolt in and removable. It has an integral dog guard with a removable section at the top and integral seat belt mounts. My 110 did not have seat belts in the rear. It was powder coated and came out really nice in my opinion. The bar behind the drivers seats does not interfere with passengers at all. Looks fairly stealthy and didn't ruin the exterior lines of the truck.
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  #2  
Old May 22nd, 2012, 12:20 PM
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Very cool, does it bolt to the chassis? (nevermind, just saw the pics) Will they ship to the US?
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  #3  
Old May 22nd, 2012, 12:21 PM
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Very nice. Stealthy is my kind of bling

Any thoughts about putting a bit of padding on the B-pillar hoop ?
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  #4  
Old May 22nd, 2012, 02:36 PM
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Very nice !
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  #5  
Old May 24th, 2012, 07:58 AM
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I do plan on putting some sort of padding on at some point. i got it finished about 10 days before I shipped the truck and moved back to the US. So at some point this summer I will get padding sorted.

I don't know if they'd ship to the US. They made it in house with my truck there but if you're that interested I'm sure they might be able to. http://challengeroffroad.co.uk/ That's their website. Fabrication, powder coating, installation +taxes came out to $2,207.22 after conversion from pounds. So at that price for what it is I was extremely pleased with what I got. Prices for SD product range installed are ridiculous and this had the specific build request included(dog guard and seat belt mounts).
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  #6  
Old May 24th, 2012, 10:39 AM
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You could also give PP Cages a call for a quote, they make an excellent product....

http://www.ppcages.com/
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  #7  
Old May 24th, 2012, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landy_Andy View Post
You could also give PP Cages a call for a quote, they make an excellent product....

http://www.ppcages.com/
Whitbread offroad also makes good external roll cages. They were who I was going to get a cage from until I decided to keep the looks of the vehicle original. I looked at PP cages as well. The PP cages cost about the same as SD in the end. I wasn't trying to go for a cheapie, but I wanted it to my specification so I went with this one and it ended up being cheaper.

It's not for everybody. Some people like shiny paint and name brand external cages. I like trident green faded paint.
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  #8  
Old May 24th, 2012, 02:39 PM
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Could also chat to Dave at Qt Services, not sure how busy he is these days with the Wildcats but he'll also do custom builds.
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  #9  
Old October 2nd, 2012, 08:01 PM
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Reply in response to a statement about the cage in the for sale thread. Posted here as requested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgreenspan View Post
Please describe an accident in which this would happen.



Any rollover with any amount of foreword or backward movement involved. Which is pretty much most of them. About the only time it wouldnít happen is if your truck slipped sideways off something while it was standing still.
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  #10  
Old October 2nd, 2012, 08:18 PM
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Ok so the same type of roll over that would destroy a NAS cage or any other cage?

I still don't see how this mounting is much different than the other SD or PP that don't have those diagonals. A NAS SD has some skinny legs on the front that mount to the outrigger/frame. The middle sits on the tub, the diagonal sits on the tub and the rear sits on the tub. I'm missing why the strength is in question when the design is essentially the same. I really can't imagine a two foot diagonal that bolts to the top of the tub capping adding strength over something welded to the frame.
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  #11  
Old October 2nd, 2012, 08:36 PM
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FYI, the 110 NAS cage bolts to the frame in the middle, through the floor behind the front seats. If you were to remove the bolts in order to powder coat the cage, it would be a real bitch if you were to break off one of these bolts. Ask me how I know. Its pretty similar to your set up. There is a horizontal running above the wheel arch in the back that connects to the rear and mid cage hoops.

Your cage looks pretty damn stout.
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  #12  
Old October 2nd, 2012, 09:17 PM
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That’s why we typically refer to the NAS cage as a 'single use' set up. You roll it, you destroy it normally. Don’t get me wrong your cage adds some strength to your truck but not as much as you obviously think based on your response in the other thread. If you are going fast enough and roll or flip then that cage is going to collapse like a deck of cards along with the windshield and the roof. It will protect you more in a side roll due to your cross bracing but not front to back. It IS stronger than just the roof alone but not as strong as a NAS cage and they are weak enough. The NAS diagonal braces do add some front/back support, not a lot, I grant you but more than what you have in yours. Hence the comment you received in the other thread.

Consider some of the competition cages you see with all the cross bracing, etc. There is a reason for all that. Competition cages are supposed to protect you in a high speed or hard roll or crash. Pretty much ALL of the cages you have mentioned (SD, P&P, etc.) are not rated for competition use unless you buy one they specifically warrant for it (not the ones in the pics on their websites). They will protect you (with their lives, normally) in a slow speed roll over such as a tipover on a trail, but offer very little additional protection in any typical road crash or roll.

Edit - forgot to add, the NAS SD cage goes to the frame at all 6 points (A,B and C Hoops), not just to the tub and its still weak. The diagonals do just go to the tub.
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  #13  
Old October 2nd, 2012, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipgregory View Post
Thatís why we typically refer to the NAS cage as a 'single use' set up.
It's not a multi use cage either. It's not a competition cage and isn't meant to be. I guess I should have spent a grillion dollars on an SD cage so you wouldn't have bothered commenting.

I still don't follow your explanation of why this is going to crumple like a "deck of cards". You seem to think each of these hoops will just bend over like a domino. It is attached to the frame 6 places and each hoop has the support between it at the top. There could be more connections, but the NAS has the ones on the top and the only real difference is the tiny diagonal(besides obvious mounting differences though still attached to the frame).

If there is an accident where these are going to get hit in such a way that they bend forward like dominoes, a NAS cage is going to do the exact same thing and it probably doesn't matter if you have a cage or not. Look at the NAS 90 cage simplified. Three hoops sticking up connected w/ supports between them w/ a tiny diagonal. Look at this cage simplified. Three hoops sticking up connected w/ supports between them w/o a tiny diagonal.
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  #14  
Old October 2nd, 2012, 11:24 PM
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I like your 110 and I hope you find the right buyer.

The gist of the comments about the cage stem from basic geometry and physics. A rectangle is fundamentally weak as compared to a triangle. If a non-triangulated cage is hit on the corner, it will fold much easier than the same cage with triangulation. Don't underestimate that "tiny diagonal", assuming that cage mounts are also well designed.
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Old October 2nd, 2012, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgreenspan View Post
Three hoops sticking up connected w/ supports between them w/o a tiny diagonal.


This is the issue as has been explained to you by all 3 of the posters that have made the same comment now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ipgregory View Post
The NAS diagonal braces do add some front/back support, not a lot, I grant you but more than what you have in yours.


Quote:
Originally Posted by grnrvrs View Post
A rectangle is fundamentally weak as compared to a triangle. If a non-triangulated cage is hit on the corner, it will fold much easier than the same cage with triangulation. Don't underestimate that "tiny diagonal", assuming that cage mounts are also well designed.


Does this answer your question as to why there are comments about its integrity? I don’t care about the fact the NAS cage is made by SD. That has nothing to do with the point being made.
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  #16  
Old October 3rd, 2012, 12:33 PM
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I'm aware of the geometry that is being explained. I think you're over estimating that diagonal on the NAS. A diagonal would make this stronger but I'm still not convinced without it it's going crumple like a deck of cards the way you're describing. The majority of the other cages for 110s that are on the market don't have diagonals, either.

I'm not trying to start shite by this discussion. I understand the concept of strength w/ the triangles versus squares. I just don't think that the description of crumple like a deck of cards is accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ipgregory View Post


This is the issue as has been explained to you by all 3 of the posters that have made the same comment now.






Does this answer your question as to why there are comments about its integrity? I donít care about the fact the NAS cage is made by SD. That has nothing to do with the point being made.
------ Follow up post added October 3rd, 2012 11:40 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by grnrvrs View Post
I like your 110 and I hope you find the right buyer.

The gist of the comments about the cage stem from basic geometry and physics. A rectangle is fundamentally weak as compared to a triangle. If a non-triangulated cage is hit on the corner, it will fold much easier than the same cage with triangulation. Don't underestimate that "tiny diagonal", assuming that cage mounts are also well designed.
Thanks! I hope so, but if not I will continue to love it. Like the other post I understand the strength but without repeating myself too much I just don't think compared to the majority of the general purpose cages on the market this is essentially the same design. It could be stronger for sure. If I keep it maybe I'll do more to it. But for what I wanted this checked the boxes and has added protection where I wanted it on the vehicle over nothing at all.

I have a set of OME springs, a nice winch bumper, winch, 255/85 KM2s on Terrafirma Dakar rims. They'll either go on this truck if it never sells or on the 110 pickup.
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  #17  
Old October 7th, 2012, 02:58 PM
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I really like what you've done here. I wonder if you could throw in a covered diagonal tube in the back without losing too much headroom....
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  #18  
Old October 7th, 2012, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormer View Post
I really like what you've done here. I wonder if you could throw in a covered diagonal tube in the back without losing too much headroom....
Do you mean like an X across the roof like a lot of the external cages have?
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  #19  
Old October 7th, 2012, 04:49 PM
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Something like that. Don't know if it would do much to improve the integrity of the cage or whether it even would be necessary.
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