Planning a build - need some opinions. - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Build-up's, Projects & Registry Profiles > Truck Build-up's & Restores


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old November 1st, 2009, 12:23 PM
marcingham
Status: Offline
Marc Ingham
1967 IIA 88
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Apex, NC
Posts: 46
Planning a build - need some opinions.

Hi all,
I am planning my next build up and I need to bounce some ideas around. Here is what I know I want: 110 double cab on front and rear salisburies (3.54s) with Axletech Dana-60 portals boxes and 37-40" tires. Tire size will be dependent upon the geometry and what fits best. The Axletech portals have 1.5 gear reduction which should give me a final ration of 5.31 which should be just about right for the big tires. The portal boxes also bump each wms out 4"-5". I will work with the backspacing to get the right stance. Another point to keep ion mind is that the 15 gear reduction of the portals will take a lot of starin off the 24 spline salisbury inners (these will require some machine work on the portal hubs to make the mate up).

I plan to stick with almost stock suspension/steering set-up, which is part of the beauty of the portals. I will beef up as needed (stronger links, chassis reinforcement, stiffer springs [but no or little lift], maybe hydro-assist, etc.) to make up for the heavy axles.

The quandary I am in right now is about the engine/transmission/transfer case. I would love to go with a 200/300 tdi and a Rover trans/trabsfer setup just to keep it green (Rover green, not eco-green). But part of me wants to go with a sbc (350 truck engine)/??? transmission/???(atlas?) transfer setup. Reliablity/cost and availibility of parts & peripherals steer me towards the sbc Not to mention the torque and HP part of the equation.

Do you think a 200 (111 hp @ 4000 rpm / 146 ft. lb @1800 rpm) or 300 (113 hp @ 4000 rpm / 195 ft lb @ 1800 rpm) can push those tires around fine? This truck will be for on and off-road use. The extra mpg of the tdi would be very nice.

I am sure a 350 will be good on the strett, but is it safe to assume I can get a 350 crate with enough low-end grunt to do well off road. MPG is out the window if I go this route.

Thoughts?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old November 1st, 2009, 03:46 PM
marcingham
Status: Offline
Marc Ingham
1967 IIA 88
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Apex, NC
Posts: 46
Sorry for all the typos.

Sorry for all the typos. I was in a rush. I didn't see an edit button. Here is what I wanted to type:

I am planning my next build up and I need to bounce some ideas around. Here is what I know I want: 110 double cab on front and rear salisburies (3.54s) with Axletech Dana-60 portal boxes and 37-40" tires. Tire size will be dependent upon the geometry and what fits best. The Axletech portals have 1.5 gear reduction which should give me a final ratio of 5.31 which should be just about right for the big tires. The portal boxes also bump each wms out 4"-5". I will work with the backspacing to get the right stance. Another point to keep in mind is that the 1.5 gear reduction of the portals will take a lot of strain off the 24 spline salisbury axles (these will mandate some machine work on the portal hubs to make them mate up).

I plan to stick with almost stock suspension/steering set-up, which is part of the beauty of the portals. I will beef up as needed (stronger links, chassis reinforcement, stiffer springs [but no or little lift], maybe hydro-assist, etc.) to make up for the heavy axles and big tires.

The quandary I am in right now is about the engine/transmission/transfer case. I would love to go with a 200/300 tdi and a Rover trans/t-case setup just to keep it green (Rover green, not eco-green). But part of me wants to go with a sbc (350 truck engine)/??? transmission/???(atlas?) t-case setup. Reliablity/cost and availibility of parts & peripherals steer me towards the sbc. Not to mention the torque and HP part of the equation.

Do you think a 200tdi (111 hp @ 4000 rpm / 146 ft. lb @1800 rpm) or 300tdi (113 hp @ 4000 rpm / 195 ft lb @ 1800 rpm) can push those tires around fine? This truck will be for on and off-road use. The extra mpg of the tdi would be very nice.

I am sure a 350 will be good on the street, but is it safe to assume I can get a 350 crate with enough low-end grunt to do well off road. MPG is out the window if I go this route.

Thoughts?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old November 1st, 2009, 05:34 PM
cgalpin's Avatar
cgalpin
Status: Offline
Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 11,623
Registry
I really can't offer any opinion about the 200/300tdi for this application but I'm sure one of the TDI users will though. Others have suggested a cummins 6bt as a diesel alternative.

But I am very interested in hearing about the portals - I always wonder why we don't see more of them (other than I assume a high cost). How much additional clearance do they give you? How much additional weight do they add? What are the down sides?

charles
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old November 1st, 2009, 05:46 PM
marcingham
Status: Offline
Marc Ingham
1967 IIA 88
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Apex, NC
Posts: 46
The Axletech portal box conversion is pretty nice. Right now it is only available for Dana 60. It is 4 boxes that bolt onto your axle at the hub. A kit for all four corners costs approx $6500, which is a deal compared to other portals (portaltek). They come with Wilwood discs and calipers. 1.5 gear reduction. 5" of lift and approx. 4-5" extra width (per side).

Right now they are only available for Dana 60s but they say the have 14 bolts, Rover and Toyota kits coming. I spoke to the project manager earlier in the year and he told me that they should have the Rover kit by year end, but I haven't seen anything yet. I also discussed using the dana-60 kit with a salisbury and he said he thought it would be doable without too much machining.

The boxes add about 75 lbs per corner. The Rover and Toyota axle boxes are going to weigh less and be lighter duty (the d-60 boxes are seriously overbuilt).

Axletech is part of the company that builds rockwells, so they are the real deal.

Here is some info.
http://www.axletech.com/downloads/AT...Bro_100308.pdf
http://motorsports.axletech.com/faq.asp
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old November 1st, 2009, 05:55 PM
cgalpin's Avatar
cgalpin
Status: Offline
Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 11,623
Registry
Nice. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old November 1st, 2009, 05:57 PM
marcingham
Status: Offline
Marc Ingham
1967 IIA 88
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Apex, NC
Posts: 46
I also have a line on coilsprung front salisburies if anyone is interested. Approx. $2000-2,200 delivered into Wilmington, NC on a pallet (incl. panhard, track rod, radius arms, dbl cardon shaft and t-case flange). Buyer ships from there. I have 2 coming in and can get more if anyone wants them.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old November 1st, 2009, 11:49 PM
SafariHP's Avatar
SafariHP
Status: Offline
Safari Heritage Parts
1983 Defender 110
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Orlando, Florida, USA
Posts: 3,324
Why not go with some 'Mog 404 or 406 axles instead? There won't be any less Rover in them than in the Sals once you build them to your desired specs. They're stronger, have lockers, and the money you'd save could be spent on building/having a fab shop build a nice linked suspension setup.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old November 2nd, 2009, 12:21 AM
madcowdungbeetle
Status: Offline
Carter
1994 D90 on 37s supreme balla style
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,358
Registry
You're gonna do a ton of reworking to use Salisburies when you'd be much better off using a D90 or 9-60 center section. Those axle-techs look like they're setup to bolt-on to Dana 60 inner C. So really there is no point in using the Salisbury, because you'd have to lop off the rover flanges to adapt to D60 style inner C's. Then you'd still be stuck with a 24 spline carrier, which would require custom 24 spline inner axle shafts to a U-joint yolk. The other thing is, and I could be wrong, but I don't think Salisburies center section have an inner axle seal, which you will need if you plan to run the axletech configuration.
__________________
<
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
>
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old November 2nd, 2009, 12:41 PM
evilfij's Avatar
evilfij
Status: Offline
evilfij
I have never seen a rover in person
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the internet
Posts: 14,688
The salisbury center has the mount for the a arm on top which the D90 does not have. If you want portals I would run the volvos as that has been repeatedly done in rovers.
__________________
*not legal advice*
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old November 4th, 2009, 08:19 PM
marcingham
Status: Offline
Marc Ingham
1967 IIA 88
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Apex, NC
Posts: 46
Hi guys,
Sorry I have not replied - I have been buried at work. Thanks for the comments, they give me some stuff to think about, which is what I was after.

Stephen - you suggested mog portals - what is the wms-wms on 404s? If I recall, think they are available in 5.3(ish):1. I really liked the idea of the Axletechs b/c I thought they would be easier to adapt to the salisbury. Now that I see (with Carter's help) that they are made for kingpin 60s, I am questioning that.

Carter - I would go with dana-60s, but they will be freaking w--i--d--e by the time you bolt the portals on. I may go with some custom narrowed dana 60s from Currie. I spoke to them and I can have the Axletechs shipped to them and they will build the axles for me. It will be expensive, though.

I appreciate you guys letting me bouce all this off you. I may have the perfect truck for the project. 300tdi included. Stay tuned.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old November 4th, 2009, 10:56 PM
Shane@EVS
Status: Offline
Roverhybrids
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RDG, CA, USA
Posts: 420
Looking the the axletech FAQ they point out that they recommend the use of aftermarket inner C's for the front knuckles. If you want to use the Salisbury front then just cut off the swivel balls and get D60 outers with aftermarket knuckles. You'll be adding a locking diff so might as well upgrade to a larger front axle shaft at the same time.
The rear should have a a weld on flange for the portal box, so again if you want to use the Salisbury then weld on the D60 parts and upgrade the axle shafts.

An LS1 SBC will make more torque at idle than the 300 at peak. The rover diesels are more of an expedition style engine(slow and steady)

Oh and currie sucks.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old November 4th, 2009, 11:28 PM
SafariHP's Avatar
SafariHP
Status: Offline
Safari Heritage Parts
1983 Defender 110
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Orlando, Florida, USA
Posts: 3,324
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcingham
Hi guys,
Sorry I have not replied - I have been buried at work. Thanks for the comments, they give me some stuff to think about, which is what I was after.

Stephen - you suggested mog portals - what is the wms-wms on 404s? If I recall, think they are available in 5.3(ish):1. I really liked the idea of the Axletechs b/c I thought they would be easier to adapt to the salisbury. Now that I see (with Carter's help) that they are made for kingpin 60s, I am questioning that.

Carter - I would go with dana-60s, but they will be freaking w--i--d--e by the time you bolt the portals on. I may go with some custom narrowed dana 60s from Currie. I spoke to them and I can have the Axletechs shipped to them and they will build the axles for me. It will be expensive, though.

I appreciate you guys letting me bouce all this off you. I may have the perfect truck for the project. 300tdi included. Stay tuned.
Not sure of any numbers. A quick search shows the 411 axles are 59" WMS-WMS. Greg Davis fit Volvo C303's under his DII...you might want to check his build out over on pirate and possibly get some ideas. A set of narrowed 60's is always an option as well. I'm sure you can find someone to build them to your specs.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old November 5th, 2009, 06:32 PM
michaels
Status: Offline
mike
2004 DII
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: auburn, al
Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by safarirover
Not sure of any numbers. A quick search shows the 411 axles are 59" WMS-WMS. Greg Davis fit Volvo C303's under his DII...you might want to check his build out over on pirate and possibly get some ideas. A set of narrowed 60's is always an option as well. I'm sure you can find someone to build them to your specs.
or fullwidth 60s would be pretty slick.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old November 5th, 2009, 06:56 PM
marcingham
Status: Offline
Marc Ingham
1967 IIA 88
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Apex, NC
Posts: 46
Full width Dana-60s

Michaels - the problem with full width dana 60s is that they start out in the 67"-69" range, then add +4" on each side and you are up to 75"-77" which is freaking wide. I think stock rover axles are about 62". That is a pretty big difference.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old November 5th, 2009, 07:56 PM
crown14's Avatar
crown14
Status: Offline
Verticalscrote
Volkswagen Super Beetle
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 44 Nas Row, Inter Net, USA
Posts: 3,285
Registry
Quote:
An LS1 SBC will make more torque at idle than the 300 at peak. The rover diesels are more of an expedition style engine(slow and steady)
1. The LS1 (or any LSx) is not the same thing as a small block chevrolet, not by a long shot.

2. The average LS1 wont best the peak torque of the 300TDI until somewhere between 2500-3000 RPM. While discussing idle output is silly, I would be willing to bet the 300 idling makes more torque than the LS1 idling.

3. Almost every diesel falls under the "slow and steady" description. Which works pretty damn well offroad come to think of it.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old November 5th, 2009, 08:57 PM
madcowdungbeetle
Status: Offline
Carter
1994 D90 on 37s supreme balla style
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,358
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcingham
Carter - I would go with dana-60s, but they will be freaking w--i--d--e by the time you bolt the portals on. I may go with some custom narrowed dana 60s from Currie. I spoke to them and I can have the Axletechs shipped to them and they will build the axles for me. It will be expensive, though.
I was referring to a custom D60 tubed center section. You can get them quite reasonably priced, or get a junkyard set and cut down the long tube since you will be needing to run aftermarket HD inner knuckles, and working with the nodular iron center section can be a pain in the dick.

You can get custom 9" housing from several manufacturers very reasonably priced. This would be my suggestion as the all steel housing will greatly help in the fabrication process, as well as allowing you to keep a removable third member. Since you will be doing gears and lockers anyways the cost is really a wash vs a D60 or Salisbury.
__________________
<
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
>
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Build-up's, Projects & Registry Profiles > Truck Build-up's & Restores

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Planning to build some sliders Chaucer Misc. Chit-Chat 9 March 19th, 2009 01:02 PM
Build a 110? Chaucer Misc. Chit-Chat 36 March 19th, 2008 08:27 PM
What modifications are folks planning lately? Hans Misc. Chit-Chat 23 July 25th, 2005 11:19 AM
D90 withdrawl :( 110 build :) evilfij Defender Technical Discussions 6 October 23rd, 2004 01:04 AM
Rover Build - Rolling Chassis ?s Jase Misc. Chit-Chat 14 March 4th, 2004 10:32 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:13 AM.


Copyright